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Many of us were dubious about the Oven Ready best ever deal ..

(221 Posts)
Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 10:27:41

but the recent revelations are truly shocking- it is hard to watch

But THIS is truly shocking. I am no fan of Paisley Snr or Jnr- but these revelations are going to rock the boat, and the EU are fully aware of this too. So when people talk about lack of trust in the word of Johnson, and the UK- no-one can be surprised

youtu.be/YLa0hVOU0Us

So he clearly told Paisley at the time, that he had every intention of tearing up the Deal before he signed it.

And that was BEFORE the Dec 2019 General Election and BEFORE the first Commons vote on this on 22nd October 2019.

Alegrias1 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:53:23

His ‘oven ready deal’ was tongue in cheek, to cheer us up

Sorry, but WTF?????

Katie59 Thu 14-Oct-21 20:06:10

WW
Bad faith, frankly it was the way that negotiation were handled, ducking and diving, cherry picking, it was quite plain the UK team could not be trusted, that is not how business is done. Those is the sort of business deals you walk away from, it really is better to have no deal than a bad one.

At the end of the day the EU did not give an inch, all our red lines passed, they simply refused to compromise on their rules and laws. Now it’s up to us to prove that our regulations are equal to theirs AND will continue meet their standards if we want to trade with them.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 20:08:40

Katie59

WW
Bad faith, frankly it was the way that negotiation were handled, ducking and diving, cherry picking, it was quite plain the UK team could not be trusted, that is not how business is done. Those is the sort of business deals you walk away from, it really is better to have no deal than a bad one.

At the end of the day the EU did not give an inch, all our red lines passed, they simply refused to compromise on their rules and laws. Now it’s up to us to prove that our regulations are equal to theirs AND will continue meet their standards if we want to trade with them.

If the British negotiators thought that they could bend EU law then they hadn’t been paying attention for the past 40 years.

varian Thu 14-Oct-21 20:10:52

The one thing we could do to reduce our carbon footprint is to ensure that anything that cannot be produced here is imported from our nearest neighbours. and not from the other side of the world.

Unfortunately we have treated our nearest neighbours so badly that they are unlikely to ever trust us as trading partners again.

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 20:15:11

I didn’t think for one minute it was the best deal.
It was just expedient to deliver it. Fair enough.
There was no other option within that timescale. I remember it well.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 20:16:27

Urmstongran

I didn’t think for one minute it was the best deal.
It was just expedient to deliver it. Fair enough.
There was no other option within that timescale. I remember it well.

But you voted for it

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 20:16:40

Oh I don’t know varian - EU actually sells far more to us than the other way round.

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 20:17:51

I did WWmk2 and was happy to do so.
I’d do the same again in a heartbeat.
Even with hindsight.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 21:19:26

And I find that absolutely astonishing and incomprehensible.

However do you believe that if people had been told the truth, and the real consequences as we see now (and I agree, Covid did not help either) - they would still have voted for it?

And cannot imagine the answer can be 'yes'. Which is why they lied, and lied, and lied some more- because they needed to lie hugely to get it through- at all and any costs.

Because it was, and will always be- about massive tax evasion for the massively rich- and nothing else. At any cost to the country and its people- remainers, brexiters, and anything in between.

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 21:50:45

I don’t think it was about massive tax benefits for the rich Kali2.

I think it was about sovereignty. Like Barnier now feels for the French. Autonomy. Taking back control of our laws, our immigration our British decision making. Being able to rip up layers of red tape that weren’t needed here. Much as how Poland is feeling. Though they aren’t net contributors into the bargain, as we were.

Katie59 Thu 14-Oct-21 21:55:01

WW
“ If the British negotiators thought that they could bend EU law then they hadn’t been paying attention for the past 40 years.”

They were so deluded they really did think that, right till the 11th hour, you simply don’t leave any club, then demand the club changes it’s rules to suit you.

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 21:59:54

We can’t keep bringing out these old chestnuts. Repeating them ad nauseum. We have to move forward.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 22:00:56

Urmstongran

I don’t think it was about massive tax benefits for the rich Kali2.

I think it was about sovereignty. Like Barnier now feels for the French. Autonomy. Taking back control of our laws, our immigration our British decision making. Being able to rip up layers of red tape that weren’t needed here. Much as how Poland is feeling. Though they aren’t net contributors into the bargain, as we were.

Yes I think it was sovereignty for you and many-

it was for massive Tax Evasion for the very rich, the ERG and their supporters, who paid massive amounts to ensure the deception worked and the 'sovereignty' lie was swallowed, hook and sinker!

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 22:01:37

Urmstongran

We can’t keep bringing out these old chestnuts. Repeating them ad nauseum. We have to move forward.

Yes, indeed (see your post above- sorry! Indeed!!!)

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 22:04:29

For many of us, moving forwards is to Unite in Opposition and stop this massive destruction, and restore the reputation of the UK. It won't reverse Brexit- but it will strongly shape WHAT KIND of Brexit- the HOW.

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 22:11:13

I don’t believe the reputation of the UK has been damaged. In fact I think we’re shaping up. Our negotiations are more robust and the EU is responding more amiably.

MerylStreep Thu 14-Oct-21 22:27:42

i don’t think anyone will trust the again
Australia don’t have a problem even though we shamefully dumped them after joining the common market.
Scruples, pride go out the window where money is concerned.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 22:34:58

''I don’t believe the reputation of the UK has been damaged.''

well what can I say?!? You must be very very insular in your outlook and information. The UK's reputation is in tatters- it is evident from the Press, TV and Social Media all over Europe and the World- and cartoonists are having a ball. It is painful, embarrassing- it hurts, deeply. I can only think you have NO idea, at all.

lemongrove Thu 14-Oct-21 23:13:33

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.😁
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

Katie59 Fri 15-Oct-21 07:35:08

lemongrove

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.😁
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

The EU is offering concessions around oversight of goods going to NI to speed up checks, trusting us to carry out the checks, they are still insisting that they retain control, ultimately with ECJ jurisdiction. This is nowhere near what UK is demanding, are there any other concessions that amount to a foot of movement?.

vegansrock Fri 15-Oct-21 07:59:41

Those who think Brexit was “done” are fooling themselves - it’s obviously not done and won’t be for the foreseeable.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 15-Oct-21 08:05:33

EU drivers can now enter and remain in the U.K. pottering around delivering goods without a visa.

Katie59 Fri 15-Oct-21 08:23:21

Whitewavemark2

EU drivers can now enter and remain in the U.K. pottering around delivering goods without a visa.

Slaughtermen/butchers too, it’s such a shame our politicians don’t have foresight and have to play catch up, more climb downs to come?.

Kali2 Fri 15-Oct-21 11:17:16

lemongrove

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.😁
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

No shame at all from me about being emotional and deeply hurt. I have been mocked and derided for saying I fell in love with the UK, well England, from the minute I set foot, Easter 1970. And I chose to stay, because I admired its values, culture, tolerance openess, variety of cultures ... I integrated 100%, gave it all I got- even went to Uni aged 29 to qualify as teacher and taught in local comps. All my adult life, raised my family there- who are still there. And always intented to return once the job we came to do here was done. But I just could not imagine returning now- and same for all the huge number of 'expats' I know here, in France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Austria and Czech republic. I see the Press, TV, satirical papers and social media from many countries and the USA too- and if you don't believe that the reputation of the UK has not gone straight down the shute, then you must live a very insular life.

You could argue that you don't care - but as we depend on those countries for imports and exports, and as they control all the routes in and out, and as we sold them most of our essential utilities, and they supply chemicals we need for, say water treatment, and medicines for cancer, diabetes, and so much more...then truly, if like Raab you do not quite understand the very specific realities of the geographical situation of GB ... then, what can I say.

The EU is trying so hard to make things easier and find solutions to ease situation between UK and NI - but as the UK plans to approve GM crops, and genetic engineering for farm animals- this is going to be very difficult. The EU, 100% understandably, DO NOT WANT those forbidden products entering the EU zone. If the UK triggers art 16, all hell will let loose! Blockading the UK is the easiest thing to do - geography, dear Watson, geography.

Fine, you will say, we can do it like the proverbial litte Red Hen- and do it all by ourselves.... some things we might be able to ...

But supply chains are closely linked to Europe- there is no kidding yourself here. Chemicals for water treatment, energy supplies, parts for our industries. The massive concern now is labour, be it HGV drivers, butchers, vets, nurses, doctors, carers ... the list is endless. And key medicines and cancer treatment, which we do not, and cannot produce ourselves.

varian Wed 20-Oct-21 19:39:34

The pleasure the leave voters seem to take in our country's distress is breathtaking