The EU and Poland are on a collision course.

MaizieD

25Avalon

MaizieD I see you have resorted to the racist card. All leavers are racist eh? that logic does not follow.

I don't think so. Avalon. Where did I say 'all leavers are racist?'

Example after example? Perhaps not all. Maybe you could give some examples of those who voted leave for the most stupid, illogical (and racist) reasons?

Even more annoying I'm sure MaizieD is the number of those who didn't bother to vote

Highly amusing but pointless tit for tat, sadly Brexit is a fact of life, we live with it for better or more likely worse, there is no point arguing.
As for Poland leaving, it won’t happen, the EU won’t let it happen, it would be far more important than the UK leaving, at present they are waving the stick, it will end with the EU dangling a carrot.

There certainly is no point in arguing as you say Katie and yet posters continue five years down the line from the referendum doing it! What a waste of precious time.

The EU won’t want it to happen....but as for won’t let it happen, that’s another thing altogether.
I don’t think Poland wants to leave, either the people or the government, it’s been too good for them, but they realise they can push and push and use any leverage they can to get their way / more cash/ promises from the EU and they will do.
The EU bloc is not a cosy club but an uneasy alliance of motley countries.

Motley countries ?????

Yes, countries that have very different outlooks and politics and accepted ways of life.

When I said some of you really scare me- I was not talking about 'marying into a family' - as ridiculous and medieval it sound, but fascism.

Lucca

Motley countries ?????

Disparate

I find it sad that some people are gleeful at the possibility of one of the greatest peace initiatives in history falling apart

The EU is just like any family there are tensions and politics, accommodating everyone’s ambitions is not easy.

Talking of morley countries - will we get a referendum whether or not we want to join that Asian trading bloc?

Disparate but geographically not so much. Motley is kind of disparaging I thought but I’m sure I’m wrong.

MayBee 70.me too.

GrannySquare

‘How many wars between what are now EU countries in the first 50 years of the last century, Yammy?
How many since?’

I would attribute a peaceful Europe as such more to the rebuilding of post war states, industrial investment, massive state aid & recovery, peace keeping forces, & recalibrated political mindsets that took place before the emergence of the Common Market & eventually the EU.

The principal factors that lead to the effective 50+ years of war waged in & by European states are no longer exist or have been transcended by history, time & the theatre of conflict moved to another pitch.

It is not the EU alone & of itself that has achieved such relative peace in the past 50 years.

BTW, we’ll always have the Balkans....whatever states they may be in now.

I didn't say it was the EU that has achieved peace in the last 50+ years in fact I said the opposite. Get the person right before you condemn and get on your soapbox.
We all know about reparations both after WW1 andWW2.
I said PERHAPS it was because of a large American presence on the continent since WW2.
If the French had got their way they would have not been there. To quote Dean Rusk the late American envoy who had been told what to say by Lindon Johnston, when asked to get all American troops off French soil he replied"What even the dead ones".
As for the Balkans, they collapsed into their separate states after the death of President Tito. How many people have been killed for political and racial reasons in the Balkans in the last 50 years that we all choose to forget? Perhaps he was a dictator but he stopped the carnage.
Who supplied the money for the reparations in countries like Germany?
Perhaps Nato {Which no one has mentioned}also had a part in keeping the peace.

Yammy, I think GrannySquare was agreeing with you and adding more information.

Misunderstanding is often how wars start. If only there was a community of nations in Europe to stop that happening. Oh, wait...

Things I have observed about some people who support Brexit. They appear to : -
- not trust people
- reallynot trust anyone from other countries
- think people conceal their real selves
- think everything is about money
- remember the war. A lot.
- think everyone thinks everything is about money
- are still really angry about the EU and want it to fail even
though we've left despite their own protestation of 'Get
over it'.
- let slip or deliberately slip in little tells of their prejudices
by the use of loaded words like 'motley'
- deny they did this when people pick up on it
- minimise the feelings of others by using words
such as emotional, hysterical, obsessed
- ignore questions which might make them question their
own thinking
- can't list any benefits of Brexit

Not everyone is like this of course and these are my own observations.

I would attribute a peaceful Europe as such more to the rebuilding of post war states, industrial investment, massive state aid & recovery, peace keeping forces, & recalibrated political mindsets that took place before the emergence of the Common Market & eventually the EU.

You seem to have forgotten about the European Coal and Steel Community (1951), GrannySquare, the precursor of the EEC, which became the EU. The EISC was set up with the express purpose of pooling heavy industrial resources across Europe so that no one European country in the 'Community' could start a build up of weapons. I'm not sure why this is being ignored in the attempt to prove that the EU has nothing to do with keeping the peace in Europe.

you will note that it was a European initiative, not imposed by the US.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

Incidentally, Yammy, reparations are paid by the (losing) country held to be the aggressor in a war, not to them. It was the punitive reparations imposed on Germany after WW1 that led to !WW2. I think you're getting confused with the US Marshall Plan (which European countries which received it used to rebuild their shattered economies; unlike the UK which wasted it trying to bolster up its dying Empire)

You could add 'really hate France and Germany' to your list, Scones.

You make a good point there.
- Hate France and Germany (but still want to go there on holiday.)
www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1504123/brexit-schengen-rules-stay-in-Eu-longer-than-90-days-british

Things I have observed about some people who supported remaining in the EU. They appear to;

Think brexit voters are too thick to be allowed a vote on such an important issue.

100% think everything is about money as that’s all the remain campaign focused on.

Bang on about democracy, but refuse to get over the fact that they lost the vote.

Interrogate brexit voters on the reasons they voted leave but dismiss their reasons as ‘ridiculous’

I could go on…….

Really hope Poland stays in the EU. Wouldn't want another country to end up in dire straits like us. Can't believe people still think it was a good idea to leave he EU after what we're experiencing atm with food shortages, not enough people to work in our hospitals, hospitality industry etc. I could go on but everyone knows the situation we face as a direct result of Brexit.

Can I add one from my observations Scones?

No sense of irony.

Scones

You make a good point there.
- Hate France and Germany (but still want to go there on holiday.)
www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1504123/brexit-schengen-rules-stay-in-Eu-longer-than-90-days-british

I think most of them prefer Spain.

The sunshine is an excellent source of Vitamin D.
I ❤️ Europe.
Just not the EU.

Interesting reasons for voting remain Kadinsky - money never came into it as far as I was concerned. Peace was number one - both in Europe and Northern Ireland - NOTHING was worth risking that.
Other reasons were things such as Erasmus and cultural closeness - ease of travel etc. I suppose you could say employment was a monetary reason but it kept many people able to remain working in U.K. for foreign companies easier or moving to work freely in Europe if they so desired.
Open doors to all sorts of things and a feeling of friendship despite differences. Mind you I am so nosey I have always wanted to ask any foreigners I met how they lived and what they cooked, ate etc. One question I would like to ask African ladies - Nigerian possibly - is how they create the wonderful headgear that they wear to occasions such as weddings. They seem to be created from strips of fabric but remain in place on the head. I would quite like a couple of demonstrations of a Sikh man doing his turban - they look so perfect.

Oh good, not again. Will this Brexit thing never end. We left. Get over it!!!