Is Macron sabre rattling?

lemongrove

Nonsense....we don’t have elections coming up.

Not just any raw meat- French raw meat which they crave, somehow.

Perhaps no elections right now, but as traditional Conservatives turn against him, and the newly acquired one realising they habe been fooled, big time - he needs all the help he can get and all the distraction from reality he can fathom.

Lit Truss is green with anger, and says she will turn to Dutch ports to avoid France. The EU will stick together- and they have the full support of the USA.

So huff, and puff and rattle those proverbial sabres ... won't make much difference. If the EU decides, the UK can be locked out of all supply chains very fast.

Maime of course France will act for its own citizens. I hope you would also agree that Jersey should act for its people.

I’d be interested to know which of the possible scenarios you think should be enacted.

Licences and catch limits should be adjusted to preserve the marine environment around Jersey. The Jersey Government elects to maintain the current level of licences for Jersey fishermen and to reduce their catch. It chooses to reduce the number of licences of other nations and reduces their catch similarly. (The original decision)

The number of licences issued to Jersey fishermen remains constant but their catches are reduced to lessen the impact of fishing on the marine environment. Other nations also have all their licences granted and disagree with any adjustment of catch. The long term prognosis for the marine environment is poor. (The current situation)

Neither Jersey fishermen nor other nations have any restrictions on the number of licences or the catch. The marine environment cannot be sustained.

I think it a pity that both sides, including posters on GN, have taken the stance that partisan Political triumph (not to mention individual ego) is the most important thing here.
I see no hope for the planet whilst this is the case.

I would be interested to know which scenario you think should be enacted.

Peasblossom

I’m interested to know why those so impassioned about about the plight of French fishermen were not bothered at all about British fishermen when the EU allocated 85% of the cod catch of the North Sea to France and destroyed the livelihoods of many.

a) I didn’t know
b) I think it’s right that France should have had the bulk of the quota
c) I don’t care about British fishermen
d) Whatever the EU does is fine by me
e) to protest would have meant I had to argue against my political deals

Actually I expect this post will be ignored. That’s the usual tactic when somebody poses a difficult question or points out a fact that challenges.

OK so I won't ignore it. The true figure for the North Sea so about 4%. The 85% comes from the Eastern Channel.

The vast majority of the cod quota is in the area north of the Faroes between Notrway and Greenland in international waters.

In 2019 the UK had almost half of the EU quota in that area, France had about 5%.

And here is the source eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R0124&from=EN

Yup.

My question is the same though. Why not when France was allocated 85% of the catch. Long before 2019.

Can I answer Petera?

Because the quotas were based on the actual share of the fishing in various areas in the seventies before we joined the EEC, and it was part of the treaty we signed up to. Neither Westminster nor any of our representatives on any of the EEC/EU bodies tried to get it changed, they just moaned about the EU applying treaties we'd signed up to.

See any parallels?

Peasblossom

Yup.

My question is the same though. Why not when France was allocated 85% of the catch. Long before 2019.

Thanks Alegrias1. And my questions to Peasblossom are the same though.

* Why did you say the North Sea quota was 85% when it was 4%?

* Why did you pluck out a single figure from a small area to completely misrepresent the cod quota of the EU? (And to follow up Alegrias1’s general point – a cod quota that was agreed in EU council by the UK fisheries minister when it was set)

Peasblossom, this is a complex and long-term debate. The most informed journalist that I have found on the subject is John Lichfield who is bilingual and lives in Normandy. This article gives insight into the complexities.
www.thelocal.fr/20211001/analysis-why-the-new-fishing-row-between-france-and-uk-could-get-nasty/
I would also ask you why you think Guernsey has managed to arrive at agreement when Jersey has not?

So today they are saying Macron backed down because Jersey came up with new proposals and so talks can go forward.
Looks like his threats were listened to and he had the good
sense to back off as a result.

Why was Macron missing from the big photo?

And surely there are far more important things at COP26 to be reported on an hourly basis?

So ..... Macron caught out lying about the Aussies and their fishermen caught out lying about license applications.

Well it almost makes a refreshing change.

EU and US announce global methane emissions plan.
UK tells jokes, loses its trouser button and falls asleep next to David Attenborough without a face mask and scratches his a**e in a globally televised programme about the vital and massively important summit. Proud?

Maybe they should give up fishing and take up cherry picking

Rattled that they’ve all be found out?

Does it make any difference to this

So huff, and puff and rattle those proverbial sabres ... won't make much difference. If the EU decides, the UK can be locked out of all supply chains very fast.

Leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union was the most stupid thing ever, and leaves the UK in a very isolated and very vulnerable position. VERY.

No comment then about the French fishermen’s ‘fibs’?
Or Macron’s spat with Morrison?

Imagine the outcry on here if the situations were reversed.

Precisely my thoughts too Urmstongran. No mention of Joe Biden falling asleep, or his deeply pathetic embarrassing press comments? or the hypocrisy of certain delegates travel arrangements! No of course not, only Boris is taken to task. No mention (I wonder why?!!) of the Israeli representative unable to attend owing to lack of wheel chair facilities? surely that's pretty disgraceful? The bias on these threads from certain posters is astonishing, but sadly predictable.

MayBeMaw

Excellent point Peasblossom
The overfishing of our waters by fishing boats of other countries has been an issue for many years- long before Brexit was a twinkle in the EU’s eye.
Scottish fishermen have long despaired of seeing their livelihood destroyed by (particularly ) France and Spain and no doubt the same applied to the NE and Cornish fishermen.
Remember the Cod Wars when Iceland extended its exclusive fishing rights from 4 miles to 12 miles and ultimately 200 miles?
It seems we are the only country with no say over our own fishing waters
britishseafishing.co.uk/the-cod-wars/

It wasn't just the fishermen who lost their livelihoods.
Others, such as marine engineers who serviced and maintained their boats did so too.

Yes, I remember the 'Cod Wars' very well. A phrase coined by a journalist, I believe, as they weren't wars as such. Disputes had gone on for centuries and other European countries were involved too.
The Royal Navy was there merely to protect British fishing boats from attacks by the Icelandic coastguards.

First mention of Joe Biden sleeping was at 19:19 on Monday.

Hypocrisy of travel arrangements discussed widely on the COP threads, including a pretty swift debunking of a ridiculous claim made on GB News.

To whom should we accord the blame for this UK government - organised conference not being able to accommodate wheelchair users?

This is a fishing thread. All the COP stuff is on the COP threads.

Here is the latest John Lichfield Twitter thread; hope it might help throw some light on the subject.
"There is confusion about the number of missing French fishing licences at the centre of the greatest Franco-British spat since 2003 (or maybe since 1898 or, some stubborn historians insist, 1066). Here is a brief attempt to crunch the stats. 1/6
Having collated different sources (others are available), here is my best guess at the state of play.
Licences asked for by ?? 361
Given permanently 148 (41%)
Temporarily 113 (31%)
Missing 100
2/6
This breaks down as follows:
Jersey (for Norman and Breton boats): 113 issued, 49 temporary and 55 missing.
Guernsey (for Norman and Breton boats): 64 temporary.
England (for Pas de Calais boats): 35 issued, 45 missing.
Hang on, doesn’t the UKG, which never lies, say it has issued 98% of licences requested? This is an obfuscation. Britain has issued circa 1,800 licences to all EU boats to fish in UK waters under the post-Brexit treaty. UKG says this represents 98%. It’s more like 90% . BUT 4/6
Most of these licences are for fishing beyond 12 miles. The UK has NO right under the treaty to refuse such requests. The dispute is about special licences for fishing 6-12 miles from the |Channel Islands and S England where Fr (and some B/NL boats) have fished for centuries 5/6
In the 6-12 mile zone EU (mostly Fr) boats “qualify” for a licence IF they have fished there in recent years. Nothing in the treaty says how they should prove they did so. Mistake. Proof needed by small boats without satellite tracking is at the heart of the present dispute. 6/6"

Urmstongran if you want to discuss "fishermen's fibs" then I suggest you come up with the tiniest soupçon of evidence.
As to Macron and Morrison, I thought it was absolutely clear what Macron was saying. "I don't think, I know". Morrison didn't like being called out. Obvious really.

Perhaps we could be told who owns all these “British” fishing boats? They may U.K. registered but most of them owned by foreign companies. The one was impounded in Le Havre registered in Scotland but owned by a Canadian company. I think British fisherfolk are now realising they were better off before Brexit. Why all this fuss about fishing anyway? it’s a tiny part of our GDP, overfishing means decline of marine life and the fishing industry is the biggest polluter of the seas with a huge amount of plastic and other waste, It should all be reduced/ cleaned up. Pity our representative on the fishing committee of the EU , one Nigel Fartage, couldn’t be ar*ed to turn up for any meetings so no U.K. influence when we had the chance.

Alegrias1

First mention of Joe Biden sleeping was at 19:19 on Monday.

Hypocrisy of travel arrangements discussed widely on the COP threads, including a pretty swift debunking of a ridiculous claim made on GB News.

To whom should we accord the blame for this UK government - organised conference not being able to accommodate wheelchair users?

This is a fishing thread. All the COP stuff is on the COP threads.

It’s interesting how people seem to have given up trying to defend Johnson as they slowly realise what a pointless and thankless task that is, and instead now point to others as if that excuses him.

Mamie

Here is the latest John Lichfield Twitter thread; hope it might help throw some light on the subject.
"There is confusion about the number of missing French fishing licences at the centre of the greatest Franco-British spat since 2003 (or maybe since 1898 or, some stubborn historians insist, 1066). Here is a brief attempt to crunch the stats. 1/6
Having collated different sources (others are available), here is my best guess at the state of play.
Licences asked for by ?? 361
Given permanently 148 (41%)
Temporarily 113 (31%)
Missing 100
2/6
This breaks down as follows:
Jersey (for Norman and Breton boats): 113 issued, 49 temporary and 55 missing.
Guernsey (for Norman and Breton boats): 64 temporary.
England (for Pas de Calais boats): 35 issued, 45 missing.
Hang on, doesn’t the UKG, which never lies, say it has issued 98% of licences requested? This is an obfuscation. Britain has issued circa 1,800 licences to all EU boats to fish in UK waters under the post-Brexit treaty. UKG says this represents 98%. It’s more like 90% . BUT 4/6
Most of these licences are for fishing beyond 12 miles. The UK has NO right under the treaty to refuse such requests. The dispute is about special licences for fishing 6-12 miles from the |Channel Islands and S England where Fr (and some B/NL boats) have fished for centuries 5/6
In the 6-12 mile zone EU (mostly Fr) boats “qualify” for a licence IF they have fished there in recent years. Nothing in the treaty says how they should prove they did so. Mistake. Proof needed by small boats without satellite tracking is at the heart of the present dispute. 6/6"

Urmstongran if you want to discuss "fishermen's fibs" then I suggest you come up with the tiniest soupçon of evidence.
As to Macron and Morrison, I thought it was absolutely clear what Macron was saying. "I don't think, I know". Morrison didn't like being called out. Obvious really.

www.dailyadvent.com/gb/news/ac7be165d15f63311223e20ae24ce9b0-French-fishermen-accused-of-illegally-trying-their-luck-in-audacious-scam-to-get-licence

www.businessfast.co.uk/stroppy-emmanuel-macron-quit-cop26-early-after-being-snubbed-by-boris-johnson/

Perhaps this will answer some of your questions.

Sorry Lincslass, I can only see rather wild rhetoric in those links. They are not exactly strong on evidence, are they?