EU pro-hijab campaign pulled

Linclass 'No one makes a woman flash her boobs,' I think this is very naive indeed. Expectations put real pressure on young women. A young woman turning up at the beach with a one piece suit rather that a tiny top or none, and a string up the b*m, would be ridiculed by her peers. Girls in the UK are hugely pressurised to dress to appeal to the boys ... tight, cropped tops and tight jeans, etc.

It's a pressure from society and from men, who are in turn pressurised by certain things such as porn, sone men absolutely pressure women to look a certain way, body hair is an example of this.

I don’t agree that men pressurise women to have perfect bodies and faces. Most men don’t like pumped up lips etc. Women pressurise themselves in their desire to attract men - or rather some women.

Growstuff. Are you aware of women wearing sheitels? Do you see them everywhere?

trisher

I think it's interesting that a women can take the decision to flash her boobs or wear a sexy outfit but can't take the decision to cover her hair and wear modest dress, because in doing so she is obviously being controlled by men! Really which do you think most men would go for? The topless woman or the woman in the headscarf? So who is being oppressed?

No one makes a woman flash her boobs, some man may make a woman wear a Burkha or a headscarf. If people cannot wear a crucifix at work, neither should a headscarf be tolerated. Goose and gander come to mind. The absence of tolerance towards Christians showing their faith and a Muslim is very marked in this Country .
www.christian.org.uk/press_release/anti-christian-bullying-ignored-by-ofsted/

trisher

I think it's interesting that a women can take the decision to flash her boobs or wear a sexy outfit but can't take the decision to cover her hair and wear modest dress, because in doing so she is obviously being controlled by men! Really which do you think most men would go for? The topless woman or the woman in the headscarf? So who is being oppressed?

this 100%. Exactly what my 6th formers used to say.

TerriBull

trisher

I think it's interesting that a women can take the decision to flash her boobs or wear a sexy outfit but can't take the decision to cover her hair and wear modest dress, because in doing so she is obviously being controlled by men! Really which do you think most men would go for? The topless woman or the woman in the headscarf? So who is being oppressed?

These are very valid points. I agree about choice. However, whenever I see little girls wearing hijabs, it always occurs to me possibly that isn't their choice. I say that because I was brought up Catholic and when I was young we were told, even as young female children, that our heads should be covered in church, that wasn't my choice I didn't want anything on my head, but then I only had to put up with it for an hour or so not all day!. Later I was to learn the meaning of patriarchy, which lets face it is present in most religions, to a greater or lesser degree.

I fully agree with most of that and I think possibly sex is the new religion and it is mostly controlled by men so now instead of having to cover their hair women are pressured to have the perfect body and have it surgically changed if it isn't perfect.

trisher

I think it's interesting that a women can take the decision to flash her boobs or wear a sexy outfit but can't take the decision to cover her hair and wear modest dress, because in doing so she is obviously being controlled by men! Really which do you think most men would go for? The topless woman or the woman in the headscarf? So who is being oppressed?

These are very valid points. I agree about choice. However, whenever I see little girls wearing hijabs, it always occurs to me possibly that isn't their choice. I say that because I was brought up Catholic and when I was young we were told, even as young female children, that our heads should be covered in church, that wasn't my choice I didn't want anything on my head, but then I only had to put up with it for an hour or so not all day!. Later I was to learn the meaning of patriarchy, which lets face it is present in most religions, to a greater or lesser degree.

Well yes but sexism in one aspect doesnt negate sexism in another aspect. I think there is actually a great deal of misogyny in the empowerment concept of say 'only fans' but lots of women choose to do it.
There is a brilliant article somewhere about 'choice' and what a con the idea of choice sometimes is.

I think it's interesting that a women can take the decision to flash her boobs or wear a sexy outfit but can't take the decision to cover her hair and wear modest dress, because in doing so she is obviously being controlled by men! Really which do you think most men would go for? The topless woman or the woman in the headscarf? So who is being oppressed?

No, I have never agreed with France on the subject of not displaying religious affiliation in public.

Tolerence should be extended to men and women wearing a cruxific or other religious emblem in public if they want to do so.

If Muslim women want to wear a headscarf in public that should be up to them.

I can, however, go along with schools objecting to seven or eight year old girls doing so - they are not and should not be objects of anyone's sexual desire at that age.

Frankly, I feel we have more or less the right guide lines in Denmark.

If you want to wear a headscarf, religious medal, kippah etc. you can do so, but an employer has the right to tell you not to do so while at work.

One nation-wide chain of supermarkets will not employ women wearing a headscarf or men wearing a turban or kippah. Another chain, just as large as the first, permits its workers to do so, as long as they choose a colour that matches the workplace overalls worn.

The railway company asked its Muslim women employees to chose three headscarves that match the uniform and the post office has done something similar.

Hospitals accept the use of headscarves or kippah - the headscarf is surely more hygenic than a nurse or doctor's uncovered hair anywhere near the wound she is dressing!

Here girls wearing a burka cannot sit public examinations, as neither the examiner nor the invigilator could possible know whether the candidate presenting herself was the woman down on the list or not.

Sorry for confusion, I meant Kali’s question. I understand now.

My dil says hair covering has never historically been a feature of her culture and that it is false modesty to start now. She also believes it has a misogynistic background and that it gives men power over women, because they will then judge hijab/non hijab wearing Muslim women differently. She has experienced this herself and will have none of it.

When some of the best, most studious, respectful, hard working students, get banned from their studies because they choose to wear a colourful scarf- then you know somehting is very wrong in that society.

When a woman gets arrested on a beach, because she chooses to wear a t-shirt and leggings, whilst others are topless with a string up their as - then something is very wrong. Culture, my foot.

When a brilliant doctor gets stripped of their job, because they choose to wear a scarf, something is wrong. Imagine if this would happen in the UK?

JenniferEccles

I don’t like them as they all represent a kind of oppression of women, a form of control, therefore there is no comparison whatsoever with headscarves worn by western women.

I agree with the decision made by France.

OK ban the burka- I'd be all for it. But if a woman chooses to wear a colourful scarf, then she should be allowed.

Trisher, I agree- if I am surprised students in France did not opt to wear a colourful scarf in school in support of their friends. I would have.

I’m like you Galaxy. I’m not quite sure what I think. I need to have a think about it and come back later.

I am not sure where I stand on this issue but just because some women make a choice to do something doesnt mean it isnt also a means of male oppression. Those two things can occur simultaneously.

It is about choice really - is the woman wearing what she is wearing by her own choice?

I hate the symbolism that says that women are the work of the devil - here to tempt men (weak men I guess!) - so they must cover up lest the feeble males cannot curb their lust.

It is not the garment itself, but what it signifies - in any religion the message is broadly the same.

I used to think they were a sign of male oppression until I went to an event when two young women calling themselves the Hijab Sisters spoke about why they wore it and how it was their right to do so. I think some women have considered the matter carefully and it is their choice.
If I lived in France I think I'd be tempted to wear one.

JenniferEccles

I don’t like them as they all represent a kind of oppression of women, a form of control, therefore there is no comparison whatsoever with headscarves worn by western women.

I agree with the decision made by France.

What's your opinion of sheitels?

I don’t like them as they all represent a kind of oppression of women, a form of control, therefore there is no comparison whatsoever with headscarves worn by western women.

I agree with the decision made by France.

SueDonim

Why what? I don’t understand what you’re asking.

Possibly me - about why SueDonim's Dil would object to students wearing a colourful scarf?

Teacheranne, I suppose a scarf round the neck will be OK- as it is forbidden to wear head covering, which is seen as a 'religious symbol'.

SueDonim

Why what? I don’t understand what you’re asking.

Me?

Asking why it’s viewed in a negative light.

Kali2

Not in school, not in any State jobs- even a colourful scarf.
Any student turning up at school with a scarf will be turned away and expelled, same for teachers.

Can they wear a scarf around the neck as decoration? I’m just curious as such scarves are a fashion item I guess.

Why what? I don’t understand what you’re asking.

Zoejory

I found this article about women in Iran before and after the Islamic Revolution rather sad

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829

yes I agree but banning the hijab or even the burqua won't change that