Brexit is dead, it is no more, it has ceased to be - because it has happened. We have withdrawn from the European Union

I'd be more inclined to believe that site Lincslass if it hadn't tried to send a virus to my PC while simultaneously promoting a Christmas decorative coin featuring a buffed Santa.

Lincslass

newsviewsmedia.com/2021/10/25/humiliation-for-macron-as-eu-slaps-down-his-aggressive-anti-uk-statement-on-fishing-rights/

I think you should have linked to the original story, Lincslass
Linking to a euro badged page (with extremely annoying and intrusive ads) makes it look less biased than it actually is.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10082309/Humiliation-Macron-EU-slaps-aggressive-anti-UK-statement-fishing-rights.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

Lincslass

Kali2

PippaZ is just giving her opinion on your post. Fair enough, no.

The irony is, that Brexit Deal is probably about to fall flat on its face and be cancelled by the EU- if arti 16 is triggered. I know very few people who voted for a Brexit without Single market, without Customs Union, and without a Deal at all = total isolation and totaly outside control of all imports and exports + massive tarifs.

Actually don’t think Germany will let that happen. Macron has already been slapped down by rest of EU as regarding his bully boy tactics over loss of small amount of fishing permits.

Hmm ... not so sure. The mainland European press knows about Article 16 and isn't impressed by the shenanigans. For many, it's a matter of principle. The UK is seen as going back on its word and questions are being asked whether it can be trusted.

The new German chancellor is due to take over from Merkel soon and it will be interesting to see what he does.

Alegrias1

I'd be more inclined to believe that site Lincslass if it hadn't tried to send a virus to my PC while simultaneously promoting a Christmas decorative coin featuring a buffed Santa.

Oh. It told me I'd won a reward for being an xbillionth google searcher. Took me ages to get past that...?

Oh, I got that too. And I thought it was just me :-(

What is known about Olaf Scholz is that he campaigned hard for the EU to introduce a financial transaction tax at EU level. He's on record on saying that the UK has caused its own problems with Brexit and it's the UK's responsibility to sort it out. He's washing his hands of the UK.

Germany is indeed an example of 'when you need multi-party government you can learn to make it work'.

Brexit is dead, problem is the government have no idea what to do with the corpse.

This attitude is why I wrote a "looking forward" OP in the first place. This government may not know what to do with the corpse but others are prepared to work at it. This PM may only want to be King Pin and not have to do the heavy lifting (COP seems like an example of that) but other are prepared to put in the work.

There will be many who think that so much is more important than politics but can some of you think about what those people would say if they felt convinced that no one is talking about rehashing Brexit - it is dead, passed, a fact. However, they are talking about not trashing our neighbours in such an ignorant way but working with them to get the best out of what we have been left by this government.

I don't think it would take a great brain to see that a government prepared to work with Europe instead of childishly seeing them as 'the enemy' could move us towards the more jobs, more trade and the beginning of the country being taken seriously on the world stage once again, I talked about.

There is certainly a group of business people who, although they may have wanted to leave the EU, still want a government that can help them trade with it and not one that destroys their future and the future of those working for them.

Could we please look forward and work out how our country can be whole again - and that means the whole UK not just England.

The Brexit process is NOT dead- we still have NO idea what kind of Brexit we will be served, so how can it be dead.

If Art. 16 is triggered, te Brexit we thought we might have will be dead- and we will end up with a catastrophic No Deal. There is absolutely no reason why it will either go ahead on the terms Frost and Johnson negotatied, called the best ever and signed.

Or if we will end up with a re-think of belonging to the Customs Union and Single market- as we were promised again and again during the campaign.

So, no, Brexit is not 'dead' - what a silly thing to say. It can't really die before we even know what it is.

And of course, in a few years time- everything can change- as people are definitely turning a) against this Government and PM and b) against the massive and damaging consequences pf Brexit.

'Dead' - dream on.

Well, the battle for leaving the EU might be over, so in that sense the argument is dead, I suppose. Johnson & Co no longer have a battle cry.

Continuing the analogy, corpses rot and smell - and that's what we have, so we still have a dead body, which can't be buried.

Re Macron and fishing - I'm aware that there is an anti French thing on at the moment in some quarters but I'm interested to learn what people think about the EU's actions in reprimanding Macron.

We have left Kali. Even if they trigger Articles 1,2,3 and however many you want, we will still have left the EU. Brexit has ceased. The electorate, the UK, is now confronted by the future and the next election.

As Growstuff said Johnson & Co no longer have a battle cry. We are now in more meaningful times. It is time to look around and see what others can do. We can, and should, talk about what happens next in this country. I wish people would. That was what the OP invited them to do.

Dinahmo

Re Macron and fishing - I'm aware that there is an anti French thing on at the moment in some quarters but I'm interested to learn what people think about the EU's actions in reprimanding Macron.

It's not important Dinahmo. We are not members of the EU.

I would like Johnson to behave better than he does. I imagine they would like Macron to do so too. But it isn't going to change our future. It is all, on both their parts, simply for the publicity.

We have left so what do you think this government or a government of progressive parties can/would do going forward?

Brexit was always a cretinous idea that was doomed to fail. It may be defacto enacted but there never was a plan -oven ready but no oven means a rotting mess. The only thing Johnson can do is making enemies of foreign nations over any little thing and wave enormous flags .

What did the EU actually say to Macron and when? Any chance of any evidence? (Clearly not from the Daily Mail).
In case anyone is interested in a more nuanced view here is the latest from John Lichfield.
The talks have obviously been taking place at different levels for a couple weeks. It isn't looking great at the moment.

unherd.com/thepost/the-franco-british-fish-war-is-far-from-over/

Dinahmo
I don’t know to what sanctions your referring to but I do know that a lot of the eu fishing nations aren’t best pleased with macrons approach because come 2026 we have the right to exclude all eu fishing boats from our waters.
We won’t, but we can.
My godson is a Dutch tug skipper and that’s what he’s hearing when in Dutch, German, French ports.

PippaZ I had thought that maybe one or two people might approve of the EU's actions rather than constantly talk about their bullying tactics.

Ideally, what I hope for is a Progressive govt followed by a move to PR. I also hope for closer links with the EU - a return to the single market and freedom of movement, for everyone but especially for younger people.

Dinahmo what EU's actions are we talking about? I think that a few weeks ago France and Britain were encouraged to continue the talks, but I can't find anything recent.
In terms of Brexit being over - well yes, but the trade deals are far from finished. The important thing is that the future is not owned by the Brexiters. They have had their say.

"The important thing is that the future is not owned by the Brexiters. They have had their say."

I agree with that. We are where we are and it's time for the grown-ups to do what they can to move forward for everybody's sake. Maybe we can start off by getting rid of our "Get Brexit Done" PM and moth ball all the silly union flags and posturing.

Leave the Daily Express and Telegraph to their hot air. They'll both start to look like grotesque, over-inflated balloons.

You are quite right about the newspapers growstuff, but I listen to the French fishers on the news talking about the evidence they have submitted with details (one example) about how they have had licences to catch squid, gurnard and bass for 20 years and they have now, with no explanation, only been given one for squid.
I ask myself who on Gransnet and elsewhere has the right to minimise their loss of income and accuse them of "fibbing" or even lying, without any evidence at all (different thread).
Makes me really cross. ?

Apologies for using a rubbish site, should have checked.

I agree with your first post, Pippa, but not so much with the follow-ups.
I think that many, many voters are fed up with First past the post and would look favourably on any party making a manifesto commitment to abolish it.
And I also think that many, many voters decide for or against parties on a single issue that may be entirely peripheral to national politics - a local planning issue for instance, or social policies.
So I think it's all more complex than you imply.

Indeedy.

Something can't die if it does not exist and no-one knows what it is.

I do understand what you are saying winterwhite; I would want PR. We need PR. The only way to stop extremists taking over a party, as has happened with the Conservatives, is electoral reform.

What I suggested is how the Progressive Parties can talk to those with little or no interest in politics on that level; how they can win the next election. We could have a thread about PR but I don't think PR will win the progressives the election - or even keep the progressive parties together.

I think people want to know that we would have a competent government that will make where we are now, work. A government that secures good jobs, improves the ease of trading and is taken seriously in the world.

That is, and always has been, what most people are interested in.

Lincslass

Apologies for using a rubbish site, should have checked.

My apologies up front then Lincslass, and I hope you don't think I'm getting at you specifically.

But is this what people do?

Do they just post links to random sites that are riddled with viruses and dodgy advertising, just because the headline matches what they think is the truth? Do they not read the article, consider the content and decide whether they believe it?

Or am I completely wrong??