how does a woman with a disability who requires a support worker change in a loo?
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BBC quits Stonewall Diversity Scheme
(120 Posts)The BBC has left the Stonewall Diversity Scheme, as membership has been preventing them from being impartial.
As many of us have been saying for a while now, Stonewall's No Debate policy has led to large organisations fighting shy of standing up to them, but now the BBC has opted out of the dictatorship.
For those who aren't aware of the issues, Stonewall was formed to fight for gay and lesbian rights in the 80s, when Section 28 made it illegal for schools or local authorities to 'promote' homosexuality, and when AIDS was causing fear and discrimination against gay people. Stonewall did a lot of good, but now that there is less discrimination against gay people, they have found themselves a victim of their own success, and have been pushing the trans agenda. Their Diversity award is coveted by many universities and local authorities (amongst other large employers) and this, coupled with a lack of understanding of the issues and how they impact on others (particularly women) has led to speakers who disagree with their one-sided perspective being 'cancelled' or 'no platformed', so young people are not able to even hear a gender-critical point of view. It has also led to the imposition of initiatives such as compelling staff to declare preferred pronouns on their email signatures, on pain of having the award withdrawn and being accused of transphobia. The act of declaring pronouns indicates buying into the idea that gender-identification is optional and that gender and sex are the same thing, which is a viewpoint that is in no way shared by everyone.
Anyway, there has been a shift away from their stranglehold, and the latest company to do so is the BBC. UCL and the University of Winchester have already pulled out, and both OFCOM and the Equality and Human Rights Commission did so some time ago, on the grounds that the refusal to listen to other points of view than the Transwomen Are Women stance (the only one allowed by Stonewal)l is not conducive to impartiality.
Do people think that this movement towards common sense is a good thing, and that Stonewall's over-reaching has brought about its own demise?
Good point, and in any case, what would be the point? There would be as much chance of finding a transwoman in there as in a changing room.
There would be as much chance of finding a transwoman in there as in a changing room. Another good point! And I suspect that any one carrying an armload of clothes to try on wouldn't get as far as the loos before they were stopped by store detectives. Dumb idea.
JaneJudge surely a disabled person who requires a support worker would change in a disabled loo which has much more room and can only be accessed by one person including their helper at a time. Usually a Rada key is required.
It's all so simple, if only we would realise. 
I haven't seen a communal changing room in any shop for ages.
When changing rooms were closed were closed some people just stripped on the shop floor www.thesun.co.uk/news/14748953/shameless-primark-customers-strip-off-clothes-changing-rooms-closed/
Communal changing rooms are more common in stores that appear to younger people, so it's not surprising that you haven't seen them - nor have I. I do most of my shopping online anyway, so it is rarely that I see a changing room at all, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand the concerns of others, or that I base my opinions purely on my own experience.
There are, however, numerous stores that have curtained off 'cubicles' in a larger changing area. Knowing that a male-bodied person is just behind a curtain is going to be disconcerting to a lot of women, whether it bothers you or not.
And changing rooms are not confined to clothes shops. They are in sports facilities and swimming pools too.
Most modern swimming pools have a unisex "changing village" consisting of cubicles, usually with some larger cubicles or rooms for families with small children and people who need help.
I was in my local library the other day and a lovely young man with a daughter of 3 or 4 who wanted the toilet was forced to choose between taking her into the gents and letting her manage by herself in the ladies. He chose the latter because she insisted. Before Covid I might have offered to help. The fact is that changing facilities and toilets seldom accommodate a man with girl children and yet we expect men to take equal responsibility.
varian
Most modern swimming pools have a unisex "changing village" consisting of cubicles, usually with some larger cubicles or rooms for families with small children and people who need help.
Really? I haven't been to most swimming pools, so that has passed me by, but if one doesn't live in a town where they have one of these modern miracles, there is no choice but to use the facilities available.
That is a fair point, trisher. Not everywhere has a parent and baby-style loo that would be perfect for these situations. The same is true for mothers and young sons. I remember not feeling comfortable letting mine go into the Gents on his own when he got to the age where he wasn't happy going into the Ladies (although he was probably older than three - at that age I think I would have insisted that he came with me). It's tricky, but I suppose it's a bit like letting them cross the road for the first time - difficult for the parent, but it has to be done.
I think actually changing rooms generally need a rethink. communal changing rooms , either in shops or pools are horrible. The "modern " ones in pools are just large rooms with individual cubicles. ...filming on phones, either over or under doors does happen. If we built proper facilities proper individual cubicles safety and dignity for all.
Why can’t a man take his daughter into the men’s toilets? Genuine question! I assume all men’s loos have cubicles in them that they can use.
SueDonim
Why can’t a man take his daughter into the men’s toilets? Genuine question! I assume all men’s loos have cubicles in them that they can use.
Most have urinals in the entrance so if a man is using one the child could watch I suppose.
I suppose it's the idea of her seeing several peeing blokes at the urinals. Not a pretty sight, and we're back to exposure again, so not really a trans issue - just a general one about what is 'appropriate' for a child.
Snap.
Doodledog
I suppose it's the idea of her seeing several peeing blokes at the urinals. Not a pretty sight, and we're back to exposure again, so not really a trans issue - just a general one about what is 'appropriate' for a child.
Not a trans issue but surely just as important as far as loos and changing rooms go. Men need spaces where they can take their daughters.
Parents need toilet spaces they can take their children to. Women’s toilets, especially at theatres, cinema’s, etc inevitably have long queues as the women take children with them.
We need facilities that meet the needs on 2021, that is parent/child toilets, mixed or single gender and why not trans?
Doodledog
I suppose it's the idea of her seeing several peeing blokes at the urinals. Not a pretty sight, and we're back to exposure again, so not really a trans issue - just a general one about what is 'appropriate' for a child.
Small boys would see this, too, though. Should girls be protected from what their brothers see?
SueDonim
Doodledog
I suppose it's the idea of her seeing several peeing blokes at the urinals. Not a pretty sight, and we're back to exposure again, so not really a trans issue - just a general one about what is 'appropriate' for a child.
Small boys would see this, too, though. Should girls be protected from what their brothers see?
Just seen this.
You're right, except that a boy will also have a penis, I suppose. I don't know - as I say, it's not a trans issue, it's more general than that.
There is a need for 'parent and child' facilities, a bit like the parking bays at supermarkets; but not all venues will be large enough to have them as well as Ladies, Gents and Disabled ones.
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