Pensioner poverty

Ilovecheese

It seems to be in the Governments interest to pit generations against each other. Otherwise why raise N.I. instead of Income Tax.
If they had kept the triple lock and raised income tax, we would all have been able to contribute.
The triple lock would have been raising the State pension for future generations, and richer pensioners would have paid more in tax.

This is so logical that it's hard to see any other reasoning behind the decision.

Divide and Rule.

...a policy which is intended to keep someone in a position of power by causing disagreements between people who might otherwise unite against them. Ministers will offer inducements to some, in an attempt to divide and rule. (Collins English Dictionary)

Could it be any clearer?

I don't suppose that the government has set out to hit any particular demographic group as a deliberate policy. The reason children are living in poverty is because their parents have too little money. There are many causes for that, including insecure/poorly paid work, high housing and childcare costs, etc.

The UK has become a society where more money can be made by owning property and other assets than going out to work. As JillyJosie posted, it's extremely difficult to save from earned income, unless there's an inheritance. Inequality is increasing for all age groups, not just pensioners and children. Fundamental change is needed beyond tinkering with pensions, taxes and benefits and dividing people into factions fighting each other.

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

grow I’m not sure what you mean. I have identified the % of pensioners in poverty according to the Rowntree Trust.

I am not concerned with better off pensioners, but only those who will be hit by the cut in pension and rising cost of living.

So assuming that the Rowntree figures are correct I’m not quite sure what you are saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Even now, pensioners as a group are better off on average than they were 15 or 20 years ago - or at any time in the past. The increase has stalled and is going backwards, but they are still better off than in the past and relative to other groups in society. Pensioners, even now, have a higher safety net than others.

I do not agree that pensioner poverty should be considered as a separate issue from poverty generally. It's pitting one group against another.

PS. Please note the word "average".

Oh thank you for your reply. Evenings are not the best time for my brain.

I take your point about division. But, hitting those who are least able to help themselves, like children in poverty seems a particularly unpleasant political policy.

I see the DM is talking about a hit of £2000 per person. That is huge, and sufficient to put many on the breadline.

AGAA4

I wish the government would do more to help poorer pensioners. I have a pension from work but many couldn't afford to pay into one.
I don't think pension credit is enough and if the triple lock goes then some people will suffer and old age isn't kind.

How can you increase pension credit without increasing the basic state pension which for 35 years of paying in is only £2 a week more than pension credit and has none of the automatic extra entitlements that PC gives.

I think pensioner bashing by the younger generation has gone on longer than recently. About 40 years ago I can remember talk of pensioners raking in the money and having a good lifestyle.

skydancer with fluctuating interest rates and austerity, the idea that you could save for old age is a bit of a nonsense unless you can invest significant amounts.
Property has been the mainstay of personal income growth in the UK, boosted by Thatcherite selling off of council houses, and look where that's got us!
Now, some young people are able to set up home via money coming down from grandparents and some are barely able to rent assuming they can actually find a rental available. I don't think Rees Mogg and his crew got their money through saving, nor is running the country the same as running a household!

The chart confirms Whitewave's OP. Pensioner poverty started falling under Blair's Labour government, but has started increasing again. The OP omitted the comparison with other demographic groups, which is the point I'm making.

Probably.

As somebody who turned 66 this year, I really notice the difference between being a poor working age person and being a poor pensioner - I'd rather be a poor pensioner any day - to be honest, I feel positively rich.

Interesting chart Growstuff.

I wonder whether the effect of council house sales by Thatcher from 1980 means that those mortgages matured 20+ years later and those owners retired with no rent costs, thus higher disposable pension income?

Pantglas2

I appreciate that those pensioners on Pension credit already receive fuel support Growstuff whereas younger folks on other benefits don’t, but older people need more heating than younger ones (generally).

If the Tories had stuck to the triple lock as promised, I wouldn’t quibble about Drakeford’s divisive measure but it’s adding insult to injury IMO!

By the way I’m not arguing this for my benefit, it’s for those who need it, for whatever reason.

Sorry, I don't agree. People of working age are considerably worse off financially than pensioners, who already receive WFA and, in some cases, Warm Home Discount.

What happens on a person's 66th birthday that they suddenly need more heat?

I support what Drakeford has done.

This is slightly out-of-date, but the figures haven't changed much. It's also from JRF and shows that pensioner poverty has fallen relative to all other groups.

www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-rate-person-type-over-time-after-housing-costs-ahc

I appreciate that those pensioners on Pension credit already receive fuel support Growstuff whereas younger folks on other benefits don’t, but older people need more heating than younger ones (generally).

If the Tories had stuck to the triple lock as promised, I wouldn’t quibble about Drakeford’s divisive measure but it’s adding insult to injury IMO!

By the way I’m not arguing this for my benefit, it’s for those who need it, for whatever reason.

Whitewavemark2

grow I’m not sure what you mean. I have identified the % of pensioners in poverty according to the Rowntree Trust.

I am not concerned with better off pensioners, but only those who will be hit by the cut in pension and rising cost of living.

So assuming that the Rowntree figures are correct I’m not quite sure what you are saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Even now, pensioners as a group are better off on average than they were 15 or 20 years ago - or at any time in the past. The increase has stalled and is going backwards, but they are still better off than in the past and relative to other groups in society. Pensioners, even now, have a higher safety net than others.

I do not agree that pensioner poverty should be considered as a separate issue from poverty generally. It's pitting one group against another.

PS. Please note the word "average".

We all knew we would get old. Most people could probably have saved more - I know I could have. I wasted money when I was younger with no thought for the future. I paid nothing into a private pension because nobody advised me to. I realise I could have done much more to help myself.

The average person in Luxembourg pays nearly 30% tax. In the UK it's 23%. The cost of living there is similar to the UK.

Glammagran
That’s properly because Luxembourg enjoys the highest per capita gross domestic product in the world.

grow I’m not sure what you mean. I have identified the % of pensioners in poverty according to the Rowntree Trust.

I am not concerned with better off pensioners, but only those who will be hit by the cut in pension and rising cost of living.

So assuming that the Rowntree figures are correct I’m not quite sure what you are saying.

Pantglas2

I didn’t mean to suggest that ALL pensioners should get it Casdon!

Surely we don’t begrudge those on pension credit who can only get a maximum top up to £2 a week less than the current SP £179?

Plus housing costs.

Pantglas2

MaggsMcG

So you all think that another party in Government will make a difference? I doubt it very much. All it will do is shift the poverty. Either one way or the other. The working/tax paying public will.srill.gave to pay. All politicians are the same. What they say in their election manifesto rarely gets done after the first year of their governance. Both parties are the same.

Correct Maggs.

Here in Wales the Labour FM has promised £100 to all on Income Support, JSA, ESA, UC and WTC to help with fuel bills this winter, excluding pensioners on Pension Credit!

Because they're already receiving support! Those in the other groups don't, even though many are poorer.

Whitewavemark2

MaggsMcG

So you all think that another party in Government will make a difference? I doubt it very much. All it will do is shift the poverty. Either one way or the other. The working/tax paying public will.srill.gave to pay. All politicians are the same. What they say in their election manifesto rarely gets done after the first year of their governance. Both parties are the same.

No that is entirely incorrect.

In 1996 41% of pensioners were in poverty after 10 years of the Labour government it had dropped to 18%.

So you assertion is incorrect.

Yes, it is incorrect. Pensioners on average make up one of the few groups in society which (even now) is better off than it ever has been.

MaggsMcG

So you all think that another party in Government will make a difference? I doubt it very much. All it will do is shift the poverty. Either one way or the other. The working/tax paying public will.srill.gave to pay. All politicians are the same. What they say in their election manifesto rarely gets done after the first year of their governance. Both parties are the same.

No, they're not both the same (there are more than two political parties anyway). If you think that, you really haven't been paying attention.

How do you think poverty would be "shifted"?

Every single recipient of state pension has paid and is still paying tax. Most have also worked in one form or another - some are still working. They are not two distinct groups.

glammagran

I found out that the STATE pension paid in Luxembourg is an avg of €3-4000 per month. I was told this last month by my stepson who has lived there for several years. I was so surprised I googled it. Having been there and seen free weekend travel for all and the high standard of living I feel the U.K. (and others) have contributed a lot more to this gravy train than we have got back.

I assume you mean the EU "gravy train", which has absolutely nothing to do with state pension.

If only I'd married a a buxom girl in Luxembourg

Glammagran. The state pension paid by other countries, whether EU or not, has nothing to do with the low rates of SRP paid in UK. Taxation and benefits are decided by individual countries. Without knowing the cost of living in Luxembourg or how much taxation residents paid to fund this payment, the comparison is irrelevant.

Not at all of course Pantglas. I’d hope that all in need are able to keep themselves warm.