Pensioner poverty

You make a good point there MaizieD.

Thank you Scones

I can never understand why people can't understand the connection between government spending cuts and loss of money to circulate in the 'every day' economy. That's the economy that most of us live and work in and which affects people's livelihoods the most.

Or the radical idea that a country is not a business. It doesn't have to 'earn' money before it can spend. It is actually the source of money. It issues (or authorises banks to issue) the money that keeps the economy moving.

Nanny27

I find it unfortunate that Whitewave@'s original meaning always seems to get lost in her continual bashing of the government.

So true!

sundowngirl

Nanny27

I find it unfortunate that Whitewave@'s original meaning always seems to get lost in her continual bashing of the government.

So true!

I refer you to my reply.

MaizieD

Lincslass

Think I remember the austerity drive was EU led
www.bbc.co.uk/news/10162176

The austerity drive within the eurozone was driven by the dominance of Germanic economic ideology, which demanded 'balanced' budgets and cuts in state spending.

As the UK was not in the eurozone it was at liberty to run its economy in whatever way it pleased. The German model appealed to the tories because it enabled them to justify huge cuts in state spending, to 'shrink the state', which has always been a tory objective from Thatcher onwards.

However, there are multiple economic theories about managing national economies; there is nothing particularly 'correct' about the 'austerity' model. It did, in fact, delay the UK's recovery from the depression caused by the Global financial Crisis. The economy was showing good signs of recovery prior to 201o when the Conservative/LibDem coalition came to power. This has been acknowledged by the IMF (just in case you think I'm making it up).

The most effective way to recover from a depression is for governments to spend in order to keep money circulating in the day to day economy and so stimulate business growth. This was demonstrated in the US in the 1930s when Roosevelt's 'New Deal' programme of government investment helped the US to recover faster from the 'Great Depression' than did other western countries. In the UK postwar recovery was similarly helped by ambitious government spending, as well as the US loan, particularly on the newly established NHS, infrastructure and house building programmes. Not such a good recovery as we also squandered money on trying to retain the Empire ..

We are in for another bout of ideology driven austerity, swingeing cuts to day to day public spending (which the government hopes will be masked by 'levelling up' money) all in the name of 'paying back' the money 'borrowed' to tide us over the covid crisis. Money that was, in fact, 'created' by the Bank of England and which we owe to no-one.

... excellent post, MaizieD

It can never be 'proved' - as some demand - that Austerity was an economic necessity versus an ideologically-driven policy.

But consider - government's extra spending during the Covid crisis has been paid for by borrowing from itself (through the BoE), plus it can borrow at the lowest ever rates in history. Which means it can now borrow to invest. If it chooses to. And that's the point. Governments choose where to spend and what to spend on. Bearing in mind that Conservative ideology is committed to 'small State' and the fact that our tax collection rate is well behind other European countries... it's not difficult to believe that Austerity was ideologically driven as opposed to an economic necessity.

When Cameron and Osborne started their austerity drive, the tabloids were daily informing us that if only the lazy unemployed would draw back their curtains and go to work; 'scroungers' would stop leeching off the State, and the disabled would jolly well find some work that they could do, we wouldn't be in the mess we were in. That was the gist. When in fact the biggest burden on the welfare state is us - pensioners.

GillT57

Pepper59

Yet to hear some, not all of the younger generation, all us pensioners are rolling in money, having five holidays a year and living in huge houses- I wish!

Please don't blame the younger generation, don't fall for the politics of division. Statistics show that the majority of Tory voters were over 70 so it is incorrect to blame youngsters.

But GillT57, if you look on Mumsnet, some of the younger generation are portraying us ALL as Babyboomers with loads of money. They are the ones causing division

We are condemmed by them for owning our own homes , which we worked so desperately hard to own. For having a workbased pension, in jobs that were destroying us but we knew we had to keep working.

My husband and I live on our state pensions. We manage OK but it will be very difficult when one of us dies, for the other to live on one pension.

I am a member of Silver Voices, a campaigning group for older people, who have fought hard to maintain the triple lock. I always feel that it is a waste of time to to write to my MP, Neil O'brien, as he is a diehard Tory who always votes with the government. However, Silver Voices asked everyone to contact their MPs to explain the impact of breaking the triple lock and to ask them to vote to keep it. So I did.

He never even bothered to answer.

I don't agree that all younger people are causing division.

From what I can see the divisions are being caused by people who don't understand (or choose not to understand) that some people are poorer than they are - for all sorts of reasons.

On average, pensioners have a higher disposable income than pensioners have ever had historically and on average they are wealthier than average people of working age.

Some pensioners choose to turn a blind eye to the problems faced by some younger people and cause just as much division as younger people.

The issue isn't age, but inequality regardless of age.

Yes there is alot of pensioner poverty, and pensioners who are well off think they should scrap the heating allowance! Sick of the younger generation whinging about the fact we have private pensions. Well, we paid into them. This government only care about the rich. A friend of mine is on the state pension only and cannot afford to put her heating on at all. Disgraceful situation.

BTW the real issue for unemployed people from 60-66 is the low level of working age benefits, which slipped under the radar because the focus is on pensioner poverty.

It's now a double lock and quite old news.

songstress60

Yes there is alot of pensioner poverty, and pensioners who are well off think they should scrap the heating allowance! Sick of the younger generation whinging about the fact we have private pensions. Well, we paid into them. This government only care about the rich. A friend of mine is on the state pension only and cannot afford to put her heating on at all. Disgraceful situation.

But younger people have less generous private pensions and are paying more for them - and, unless they inherit money, are finding it more difficult to own property. Sorry, but I'm a bit sick of pensioners blaming younger people.

SillyNanny321

Unfortunately I was ‘persuaded’ by my Ex to take what would have been my pension from Local Govt as a lump sum! Most of which paid for things he wanted. I then spent time bringing up our DS as their were no childcare facilities then so only worked part time! Did not realise how this would affect me as a pensioner! No proper pension, no private pension & a couple of years ago was told by a young man that I am a drain on his income as I am living on benefits! Another of his friends then said ‘ yes but all the olds are well off aren't they & own their own houses’ accusing me of lying! At my age I am sick of being treated like a scrounger, sitting in the cold as I am careful of the amount I spend on heating! Even getting DLA does not help as it takes me over the limit if I ever need Care which I will have to pay for! So thanks Boris & friends for the paltry amount we pensioners are expected to live on being one of the lowest paid pensioners in Europe & other countries!

Exactly Sillynanny321 ....

I love the name as quite often that is said to me!

I am disabled and unable to work, and wasn't properly advised by my solicitor when I divorced and have missed out considerably as my ex husband didn't want his pension fund touched - unsurprisingly as it added massively to the eventual pot - I did get the majority of my house but still had to have a mortgage which in 5 years time runs out and at that point I will owe my bank £60k .... so, I am in the process of selling (which has been horrific as I am embroiled in the cyber attack scenario of the UK's largest Conveyancing firm, but that's another story!)

So, when it all goes through I am paying the bank back with my equity and will be buying a much cheaper property.

I have had a bit of support from my LA now since 2013, but in 2019 out of the blue I had a request from them to have a Financial Assessment. As it turned out, when they came my internet was down so as I had everything online we couldn't do anything, but we had a chat as I was worried as people on benefits struggle anyway, and was told that unless I had over £23,250 in savings I would be fine .... when they finally came to do it, imagine my horror when they said they wanted over £91 a week off me. I did an income and expenditure spreadsheet, and it left me with a deficit of several hundred pounds a month, so I appealed! That appeal took MONTHS, and I never paid them a penny. Then, my needs changed after having several major surgeries and I needed even more support, and then followed in January 2021, a further letter stating that I now owed them almost £200 a week for a basic wash and a few hours of help in the house! Appealed again, sent them another spreadsheet showing a deficit of over £500 a month if I paid them that amount!! The stress was immense, but I am savvy enough to challenge it - what worries me is that many disabled and vulnerable people out there aren't savvy enough!! I challenged it and by showing them receipts etc for things I have had to purchase because of my disability I got it down to a negligible amount. The same LA has just assessed my friend, and have not even told her that she can use her receipts for what is known as Disability Related Expenditure (DRE) at all, which is very underhand!!

However Sillynanny DLA isn't means tested, and that in itself shouldn't cause you to be over the limit, it would be your savings that do, but they actually DO count it as INCOME. Interestingly Jeremy Vine had on his radio programme someone talking about PIP and how difficult it was to get, and they had the charity SCOPE on there saying that on 'average, disabled people face about £580 a month of extra costs compared to non-disabled people", so in effect the LA's are taking away that money we need in order to provide me for example with a daily flannel wash, a once a week hair wash and a few hours help in the house, which is a disgrace!

Private message me if I can help anyone in this situation, as I have become quite an 'activist' around this issue ..... especially as it is discretionary for the LA's to actually charge anyone anything! There is one LA in England which chooses not to victimise it's most vulnerable residents, and charge them for support for their basic needs, and that is Hammersmith and Fulham.

There are many sides to the coin, aren’t there growstuff. Many relatively comfortable pensioners (and many who scrimp themselves too) help their adult children financially - either by house purchases, childminding, major household purchases etc, so the money is redistributed in many cases. Others don’t.

Well if pensioners have to sacrifice essentials in life such as heat and food due to rising prices, what will state workers and politicians go without……..? Many divorced female pensioners especially have been badly hit, they stayed at home looking after their children and homes whilst the men went out to work so never had the opportunity to save into a pension and on divorce had no entitlement to their husbands pension pot either. Even divorcing in my forties I never was able to earn or save a sufficient amount for a pension(yes rules have changed now) I’m sure many women are in the same situation as myself. But saying so I will survive, but I can remember in my early twenties women had the opportunity just to pay a married woman’s NI stamp which was a lot less and it was never pointed out that paying this you would forgo a state pension in your own right, so glad I always paid the full amount!

Hi madeinyorkshire good to hear I am not alone! After 2 spells in hospital after shoulder damage was told I would need Care. This was arranged without me being told I would have to pay. My Council told me that my DLA takes me above their limit & that they will not allow me to claim for a Cleaner, Gardener or Window Cleaner. All that they ‘allow’ is utilities, food & rent! Any debts that I have, credit card, is ignored & I should stop paying unnecessary items! So I had to pay a lump sum of £800+ which of course I had to borrow & now pay £20 a week for someone to help me wash my hair taking 15 mins twice a week! Seems some councils give more help but not mine! Hate being old but it does beat the alternative. Keep well!

I don’t know how you managed to get money released from your local government pension Madeinyiorkshire. I couldn’t even transfer mine to a private pension when I left the public sector and had to wait until age 60 to receive it as a pension not a lump sum.

MadeInYorkshire you are an example us all - not only fighting your own case but offering help to others! If only more Gransnet subscribers could pull together to help each other. I am sure we could really add value!

Casdon

There are many sides to the coin, aren’t there growstuff. Many relatively comfortable pensioners (and many who scrimp themselves too) help their adult children financially - either by house purchases, childminding, major household purchases etc, so the money is redistributed in many cases. Others don’t.

Yes, there are many sides to the coin, which is why I don't agree that it's just a "pensioner poverty" issue, but so much more. Dividing people into factions doesn't help.

Casdon

There are many sides to the coin, aren’t there growstuff. Many relatively comfortable pensioners (and many who scrimp themselves too) help their adult children financially - either by house purchases, childminding, major household purchases etc, so the money is redistributed in many cases. Others don’t.

Yes, there are many sides to the coin, which is why I don't agree that it's just a "pensioner poverty" issue, but so much more. Dividing people into factions doesn't help.

Urmstongran

GagaJo

They can't afford to spend on the country AND pay for all the bungs to their mates.

I'm worried about working post 60. I get no pension until 67.

Won’t you be eligible to draw your teaching pension at 55y GagaJo? That what my friend did. Plus a little private tuition saw her through nicely until she collected her state pension at 64y.

No teaching pension UG. I couldn't afford my share of the payments when I was younger, due to my ex husband not paying any child support.

I'm swimming in online private tuition, but it's bl**dy hard work. Not sure I'll be able to work this hard at 65+.

Gagajo I'm 66 and I still have to do private tuition. Having a pension pays rent and essential bills, but the tuition pays for anything extra, such as clothes or going out. I lost most of my students when exams were cancelled, but it's picked up a bit now. I actually enjoy the few hours I do. Work out how many hours of work the state pension is worth and aim to make up the difference with a bit of tuition.

I'm making the equivalent of a full time (lowish) teachers wage now. It helps that I'm an examiner, it's a selling point. But it's a lot of hours.

Of course, nothing like as stressful as being a full time teacher!

My concerns are for those on a state pension only who have to pay rent. Yes I know there is housing benefit plus pension credit but these do not cover the whole amount. What people forget is that those with the least spend the most because they have no choice. They cannot save , replace items, etc because their income is taken up with keeping warm, fed, clothed etc. Those who earn the most contribute less to local economies.
We have the lowest state pension in Europe and if you don’t have a company or private pension, life is tough.
I am not bothered about paying back the money “ borrowed” or “ created” to sustain us through the darker days of the pandemic . I want the government to invest in infrastructure, skills, training, projects to benefit all . It is an ideal time to be pro active, creative and seize the initiative. I very much doubt my hopes will be realised!

Our pension is one of the worst in developed countries. However, Covid has caused a huge increase in spending for things like, for example, the Furlough scheme and the vaccination programme and the amount of money owed for these is eye watering. Sharp increases in fuel prices and food are the result of external Covid related global pressures. Gas prices have risen because China, undergoing a worse economic crisis is buying up the liquid gas supply at a very inflated price so supplies are going there - to the highest bidder, instead of its usual destination, the UK.

And so on. I deprecate the ending of the triple lock but I feel it is essential to keep tabs on global political, economic and social trends during the pandemic in order to contextualise events in this country.

There are an awful lot of pensioners. A rise costs more than a couple of bob down the back of the sofa and perhaps the hover feels the money is needed for other groups too.

My elderly mother was not well off so she had subsidiary benefits, housing costs met, attendance allowance, a fuel subsidy and, finally, completely free state residential care so she did not have to rely entirely on her pension.

Sorry, government, not hover. Should have gone to Specsavers. Autocorrect is unbelievable sometimes.