NHS in crises

I haven’t seen it reported in the news about clinics being empty Calistemon, where was it in Wales? I have seen several other reports of clinic letter mix ups when I googled it, but they were in the North East of England and Scotland, for Covid vaccinations.
There are many ways in which the effectiveness of health services can be measured, and it suits the narrative of the UK Government to denigrate the systems in the other nations. My impression is there is good and bad in all four systems. One real strength in Wales is community integrated services being on the same footprint as the Local Authorities and delivering jointly to enable people to stay in their own homes longer which is not as good in England. Our waiting lists are very poor though, partly due to the number of vacancies at consultant level - but it’s not inherently less efficient in my opinion.
Whitewavemark2 is the bill you refer to UK wide, or for England, given that health is devolved?

Yes, Casdon in Wales.

It must be just for England I guess, but I will put my hand up and say that I haven’t read much about it, but it does sound worrying. Hoping someone who knows about its contents will give us an idea what is being decided.

Is it this Bill Whitewavemark2? This is aping the system we already have in Wales, and is for England only - but it doesn’t seem to say anything about patient eligibility for care changing, so I may have the wrong Bill?

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/health-and-care-bill-key-questions

Where in Wales was the empty clinics issue Calistemon, can you link it or give a bit more info?

I pmd you, Casdon

Not empty, just fewer than invited for appointments.

Oh thanks I will read that. Just watching film taken in the Victorian period. Will finish that first, as that read needs concentration?

I hope it has been sorted out now, Casdon

Casdon

Is it this Bill Whitewavemark2? This is aping the system we already have in Wales, and is for England only - but it doesn’t seem to say anything about patient eligibility for care changing, so I may have the wrong Bill?

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/health-and-care-bill-key-questions

Where in Wales was the empty clinics issue Calistemon, can you link it or give a bit more info?

Can I refer you back to my post at 16.12. Follow the link to the video explaining what the Bill is proposing.

I saw that MaizieD, but didn’t find it that helpful because it’s written from a political perspective. I couldn’t see the evidence that what was claimed is the reality of what is proposed in the Bill, and when I saw the Kings Fund article I questioned whether they were referring to the right Bill because it seems so different in interpretation. I don’t think the Kings Fubd has a political bias, and I’d be surprised if they have missed such a major implication. I’ll be interested to see what Whitewavemark2 interprets - as I’m in Wales and this Bill definitely appears to relate to England only I’m not directly affected, but will be interested to see what those who are make of it.

Why would you think that there should be political objections to the bill, Casdon?

Don't tell me that you believe that the tories, whose objective has always been to minimise the State (i.e funding) and to open up the NHS to profitmaking organisations are disinterestedly working to improve the NHS to the benefit of all our citizens?

Had you not noticed that certain procedures are no longer offered on the NHS? Or that US companies are buying up GP surgeries en masse? Or that much NHS work is already farmed out to private providers who have to make a profit from the work they undertake (which makes one wonder why the NHS can't actually do it more cheaply as they don't have to make a profit?).
Is there no concern that there is great potential for our data to be sold to companies, with the prospect of it being used to limit access to health provision if a health insurance model is introduced (like the US system which so many of our current cabinet members approve of and which we know is dire).

Are we just sitting back thinking that the NHS will never change and that a benevolent government is in charge of it?

Too late for me to read, maybe some night owls will find the will do do so.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-care-bill-factsheets
Will read myself when time permits. Goodnight.

The NHS is almost entirely devolved.

As I said MaizieD I’m in Wales, and the NHS here is increasingly different to the NHS in England, that’s why I didn’t know much about the Bill and sought to find out.
I’m not a Tory supporter, and I’m certainly not gullible. I just like to understand the potential implications of proposals from less political sources and then make my own mind up.

This is the BMAs interpretation

Sorry to reintegrate the BMA link, but it is worth repeating and many don’t bother to read links etc.

I think that the concerns of the BMA are exactly what we would be concerned over.

There will be no transparency in the award of contracts.
Why on earth not? Look where this last couple of years has got us.

As patients we will no longer have the right to challenge in court any removal of services.

This means that the concept of cradle to grave will be gone. Opens the way for at least private insurance needed to “top up”

Private health providers etc will be able to sit in decision making boards. This is definitely a conflict of interest and not in the patients interest.

The powers of the Secretary of Health is to be greatly extended, which means that the power to abolish/extend/reconfigure Trusts and the ability to gradually de-nationalise, without parliamentary/democratic oversight

See the pattern?

Government will have complete control over our health data. This has never been the case and leaves government with the ability to commercialise the information.

It looks like exactly as feared. The NHS will be reduced to a mere safety net for the poor and destitute. We are moving towards an American model.

We need another -any - government before this gets too far down the road.

Other European countries seem to do a lot better. Why we can't look at how other counties do it I don't know? Because the powers that be couldn't give a the NHS (and other. public services) are in a "world class" mess!

I think it all goes back to the OP. It is a deliberate policy which began with Cameron.

Whitewavemark2

Sorry to reintegrate the BMA link, but it is worth repeating and many don’t bother to read links etc.

I think that the concerns of the BMA are exactly what we would be concerned over.

There will be no transparency in the award of contracts.
Why on earth not? Look where this last couple of years has got us.

As patients we will no longer have the right to challenge in court any removal of services.

This means that the concept of cradle to grave will be gone. Opens the way for at least private insurance needed to “top up”

Private health providers etc will be able to sit in decision making boards. This is definitely a conflict of interest and not in the patients interest.

The powers of the Secretary of Health is to be greatly extended, which means that the power to abolish/extend/reconfigure Trusts and the ability to gradually de-nationalise, without parliamentary/democratic oversight

See the pattern?

Government will have complete control over our health data. This has never been the case and leaves government with the ability to commercialise the information.

It looks like exactly as feared. The NHS will be reduced to a mere safety net for the poor and destitute. We are moving towards an American model.

We need another -any - government before this gets too far down the road.

That is what the video I posted was saying. Good try, Wwmk2, but don't you realise that the BMA is 'political' (being the doctor's trade union) so it clearly can't be trusted to be making an objective assessment of the provisions of the Bill.

As we all know, the NHS is utterly safe in the hands of the tories, they're continually saying this, aren't they? . After all, the tory's leader is the very model of selflessness, honour and truthfulness. I think we can trust his government not to do the dirty on us, can't we?

I would trust my doctor over a politician any day of the week.

Joan Bakewell
@JDBakewell
Save The NHS! I’m asking the govt in the House of Lords on Wednesday what plans they have to stop American Health Insurance companies buying NHS surgeries.

Interesting to see the thread on the Health forum about the removal of earwax. Just one of those services which people are having to pay for because it's no longer routinely offered on the NHS...

DO YOU WANT TO LOSE YOUR NHS?

So today Boris Johnson’s Conservatives - with that big ole ‘get Brexit done’ majority you gave them, Britain - voted:

NO to helping better understand and improve services to treat alcoholism (every other party voted yes);
NO to better health warnings on cigarettes (every other party voted yes);
YES to a deeply unfair care cost structure which will see those with one small family home lose it to care costs, while the very wealthy remain untouched (every other party voted no).

‘All politicians are the same’ !?! really?

Boris Johnson’s Conservatives will vote:

YES to removing your right to secondary healthcare as a U.K. citizen which we’ve had since 1948. That’s NO LEGAL RIGHT TO NON-EMERGENCY HEALTH SERVICES FOR U.K. CITIZENS;
YES to allowing far more private and US companies into the NHS; and
YES to removing tender processes so fat contracts milking the NHS can easily be handed to their mates, paid for with your money, at the cost of patient care.
All other parties will vote no. But it won’t be enough to stop them.
Because of that big ole ‘get Brexit done’ majority you gave them.

IF YOU HAVE A TORY MP, please email them. They do listen if they think they might be in serious danger of not getting re-elected. Some Tories voted against social care costs this evening.

Please. Your life might just depend on it one day or that one of your GCs.

Dr Dan Goyal
@danielgoyal
·
10h
#NHSBill
It is not the collapse of the NHS we are experiencing. It is the collapse of the UK healthcare service.
There is no alternative service. Private care providers are not geared up and ready to pick up the slack. The transition to private care will hurt. #ScrapNHSBill

It’s not actually Whitewavemark, it’s the collapse of the English healthcare service. All the nations of the UK have issues with healthcare, but self-serving governments are not in power except in England from a healthcare perspective.