UK ‘dangerously close to elected dictatorship’ under Boris Johnson, Ken Clarke warns

There was one poster a little while ago who did give us a list of all the reasons she'd voted for Brexit, which she completely believed in. They were all nonsense, of course. I did tell her, with proof...

As I recall the mythical European Army came up there as well.

But she thought they were perfectly valid, which is why I think the Leave voters are so tired of us asking.

Even more so when after clear warnings that this would happen, with clear reasons given, that Brexit would make it much 'worse'.

It's difficult to admit, 'I wanted to get rid of foreigners' in a polite way, isn't it?

At what point will Brexit voters admit that the spurious reasons they were given for voting Brexit were all fantasy?

Never, I expect.

Far better to deflect any discussion about serious matters to personalised attacks on specific people.

Jabberwok

Tbh Lemon ,this thread is tedious hence as always, I can't really be bothered with it except to say that people voted for Brexit for many different reasons and are no obligation to be constantly asked or bullied into giving those reasons 5 years along the line or at any time come to that,simply to have those reasons trashed. I for one am absolutely certain that in the long term this country will thrive and be far better out of the dictatorship that is Brussels than if we were still caught up in that trap and what it may become. Who knows what is in the pipeline? An EU army is just one example, and there are many others.

Hmmm. Yes. We're doing so well, so far.

The latest attack on our Democratic processes is Johnson's intention to emasculate the Electorial Commision.

The Electorial Commisions independence will be scrapped because Johnson wants to set the priorities of the Commision rather than allow it as an independent watchdog over our election, set its own priorities.

Why?

If we want to maintain public confidence in our elections we must maintain and independent - free from political interference - oversight.

This body amongst others exists to protect our democracy.

Lord Evans - chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, said that “this would be like giving a toddler a loaded gun. It may not immediately lead to disaster, but it is a very dangerous thing to do.”

No-one has recently asked why you voted- but what the benefits of this current Brexit (which is not at all the Brexit that was promised) are.

If you know they would be 'thrashed' (your words, not mine=- then you must know that they are easily thrashable!

I am glad that you are 'convinced' but tbh, it would be better to have more tangible facts, truly.

Tbh Lemon ,this thread is tedious hence as always, I can't really be bothered with it except to say that people voted for Brexit for many different reasons and are no obligation to be constantly asked or bullied into giving those reasons 5 years along the line or at any time come to that,simply to have those reasons trashed. I for one am absolutely certain that in the long term this country will thrive and be far better out of the dictatorship that is Brussels than if we were still caught up in that trap and what it may become. Who knows what is in the pipeline? An EU army is just one example, and there are many others.

lemongrove ''Just as tedious requests for lists of benefits from a couple of posters are not relevant to this thread either.''

well, the problem is, that on all the threads where it was 100% relevant- no answer has ever been given- not for days, weeks, months either - years even. So no wonder the polite request is repeated.

grannyrebel7

I seem to have unintentionally insulted the working class with my stupid comment about "ignorant working class people" yesterday. I'm working class myself so that was definitely not what I meant. I meant that they were ignorant in voting for Johnson and thinking that he cared about them, not ignorant per se. Will be more careful how I phrase my responses in future

I agree. How anyone working class could think the Tories would ever do anything in their favour, I really don't know. Now they're stuck without health care, jobs and even the extra £20 a week for Universal Credit has gone in favour of Tory friends and relatives.

This thread is NOT about Ken Clarke, at all - he just happens to be the messenger!

The topic is clear in the title The UK is “dangerously close” to becoming an “elected dictatorship” under Boris Johnson – and his handling of Brexit.

As for lists of Brexit delights never appearing- we all know the real reason why, don't we. There are NONE, zilch, zero, niente, nichts, rien du tout, nada- at least none that would not be immediately cancelled by clear, strong denial, backed and proven by fact.

I seem to have unintentionally insulted the working class with my stupid comment about "ignorant working class people" yesterday. I'm working class myself so that was definitely not what I meant. I meant that they were ignorant in voting for Johnson and thinking that he cared about them, not ignorant per se. Will be more careful how I phrase my responses in future

MaizieD...I was talking about the subject of this thread, Ken Clarke ( bitter Remainer) so it was a relevant comment.
What is certainly not relevant is a tirade against anyone either on GN or in real life who voted to leave the EU five years ago.
Just as tedious requests for lists of benefits from a couple of posters are not relevant to this thread either.

Stop this nonsense. Political intelligence has nothing to do with exams and qualifications - but as said above in German 'Vernunft' - rational common sense.

Anyone who fell for Johnson's persona and Brexit as it was sold then, can be taken seriously even if we disagree. Anyone who still supports him NOW, and his refusal to accept the Deal he and Frost (who elected him by the way!!!) negotiated, called 'oven ready' and signed- and still maintains Brexit has or will soon or ever have, huge advantages- is just not credible NOW.

Simple.

''*we are still very much waiting for the list of advantages and positive points about Brexit- no need for an essay at all. Just a list will do.*''

Very interesting thread but I’d better not comment as I’m one of those ‘stupid’ and ‘ignorant’ voters though perhaps my professional status saves me from the ‘working class’ slur fwiw. Yes Maizie, I studied British Constitution in some depth too as part of my Law Society exams. So perhaps not entirely ignorant.

lemongrove

Oh dear Katie ....Perhaps think of changing your social circle
In that case.I guess you can’t change your family’s outlook but can change your friends minds.

Luckily all the people I know have a more reasoned outlook on life.
Now...and this is kindly meant, time to move on from bitter
Judgements about the referendum and who voted for what and why (which was years ago) and concentrate on the future.The pandemic has caused far more harm than any perceived downturn from leaving the EU.

It is so good to hear. So we are all expecting YOUR reasoned list very very soon.

lemongrove

Oh dear Katie ....Perhaps think of changing your social circle
In that case.I guess you can’t change your family’s outlook but can change your friends minds.

Luckily all the people I know have a more reasoned outlook on life.
Now...and this is kindly meant, time to move on from bitter
Judgements about the referendum and who voted for what and why (which was years ago) and concentrate on the future.The pandemic has caused far more harm than any perceived downturn from leaving the EU.

Sorry?

Judgements about who voted for what?

He’s a bitter Remainer and has always been full of himself in any case.

I wonder who said that?

I mean this kindly, but you're talking rubbish.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59070020

Oh dear Katie ....Perhaps think of changing your social circle
In that case.I guess you can’t change your family’s outlook but can change your friends minds.

Luckily all the people I know have a more reasoned outlook on life.
Now...and this is kindly meant, time to move on from bitter
Judgements about the referendum and who voted for what and why (which was years ago) and concentrate on the future.The pandemic has caused far more harm than any perceived downturn from leaving the EU.

Best of luck with that Kali the best replies I’ve had when I’ve asked Brexit voters are -

No immigrants
Dislike foreigners
We can manage on our own
We don't need the French

Hardly rational reasons by intelligent people

Lemongrove ''Does anyone remember a few years ago a couple of posters constantly demanded homework ( a thesis!) from others to explain their opinions/ points of view?Well....let’s not go back down that rabbit hole.''

we are still very much waiting for the list of advantages and positive points about Brexit- no need for an essay at all. Just a list will do.

There’s also a good clear explanation about it in a piece from the ‘i’.

Of course it isn’t my opinion
It’s on various sites and makes interesting reading.
Here is just one site: ukandeu.ac.uk
UK In A Changing Europe.

lemongrove

What there is, is a very complicated set of rules if an MP wants to challenge, not a straightforward appeals process.

And Paterson used this very complicated set of rules, with a lawyer at his side, every step of the way.

Who is the authority you are quoting?

GrannyGravy13

Gagajo there was at least one thread lauding Mr.Cummings for turning on Mr.Johnson.

I must have missed that one. Do you have a link to it?