Scrapping HS2 for those further north

Sueki44

I don’t know if people realise HS2 would not stop anywhere. No freight or anything. I’m living in HS2 land and it is diabolical - no advantage to us and INCREDIBLE disruption. Just so people can get to Birmingham ( not the centre) 20 mins earlier. No one will be able to afford the fair (as in Spain ).
They should have built the Northern HS2 first…. they deserve it

I agree.

NfkDumpling

Or Leeds might be better!

There's a place in the Orkneys called Twatt. Sounds ideal!

Josianne

I am of the opinion we just can't afford it at present. The pandemic re allocated the money set aside for it and in terms of the environmental issues I am pleased.

The north can have our bit which is currently tearing up swathes of leafy Buckinghamshire. Nobody wants it around here - as the electorate in a very, very safe Conservative seat pointed out at the recent Chesham and Amersham by election when they voted their party out.

Chesham and Amersham did scare the Tories. There really should never be such a thing as a safe seat.

First Past The Post is a totally undemocratic voting system which nearly always results in a party gaining a large majority of seats on the basis of a minority of votes, and can result in the party with the most votes gaining fewer seats than another party.

In the civilised world there are fewer and fewer countries still allowing the sham democracy of FPTP.

The USA is one where in 2016 Hillary Clinton gained about 3 million more votes than Donald Trump but Trump was eleceted .

In Europe there are only two sham democracies where a minority of votes can result in absolute power - these are the United Kingdom and Belarus.

Boris is a buffoon and a liar but still he will get in next election.The Southeast and London are all any of them care about.

I don’t think he’ll be leader for much longer. And I don’t think we’ll have other Conservative government, either. We can’t continue with this level of corruption.

Living here in Norfolk we are the end of the line. To access the East Coast line to go north I would have to drive to my nearest station- 23 miles and then either go to London, lots of stops to Cambridge then none until the other end of the line atKings Cross.
Alternatively change at Ely to Peterborough to access other parts of the country. What a faff.
I think I understand why both sides of this HS2 debacle are very cross but spare a thought for us. We really have no alternative to the car.

HS2 should never have been given the green light. The north needs investment and should have taken precedence over carving up great swathes of land between Birmingham and the capital.

Elvis58

Boris is a buffoon and a liar but still he will get in next election.The Southeast and London are all any of them care about.

I very much hope you're wrong on this.

kevincharley

Elvis58

Boris is a buffoon and a liar but still he will get in next election.The Southeast and London are all any of them care about.

I very much hope you're wrong on this.

I think he will win the next election. For two reasons. One is the "anyone but Labour" syndrome at play. And the other is the fact that he rode into number 10 on his "Get Brexit Done" ticket, and he gave them Brexit... he gave them what they voted for in the Referendum.

The fact he has dishonoured his pledges and 'promises' is neither here nor there... the £350 million per week for the NHS, the triple-lock... and now this... will be forgiven because there are ready scapegoats at hand - the economy, the EU, the Pandemic. And I don't think the current 'sleaze' will bother his admirers too much because they believe it's par for the course for all politicians of any stripe.

He has now stripped Transport for the North of its powers - removed its funding - because they criticised his rail cuts. That might make some people angry enough to not vote for him and his party, and I really hope it does. But I'm not convinced it will be enough.

The only way he might be out of office is if his wealthy donors and backers agitate behind the scenes because they are fed up with all the negative publicity he's attracting to the party. But we'll still end up with the party in power.

I’m actually getting really tired of all the ‘ there’s no effective opposition’ talk. Do people not watch parliament and see the experience and talent there is on the opposition benches. Not to mention decency.

I was opposed to HS2 from the beginning because I see no reason why business people should have 20 minutes shaved off their rail journey. It would have been much better to have put the money into improving rail links everywhere. And public transport. I suspect that the govt thought that HS2 was the easier option.

PamelaJ1

Living here in Norfolk we are the end of the line. To access the East Coast line to go north I would have to drive to my nearest station- 23 miles and then either go to London, lots of stops to Cambridge then none until the other end of the line atKings Cross.
Alternatively change at Ely to Peterborough to access other parts of the country. What a faff.
I think I understand why both sides of this HS2 debacle are very cross but spare a thought for us. We really have no alternative to the car.

There used to be a good route from Harwich, down to Stratford and round London and then up to Scotland (I think it went that far) I used to travel on it in the late 80s to get from Ipswich to Milton Keynes. I had to change at Manningtree but much better than having to traipse across London. It wasn't publicised, possibly deliberately and was shut down many years ago.

A bit of good news - this is what we need more of!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-59358794

Casdon

A bit of good news - this is what we need more of!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-59358794

... thanks for posting that - very interesting!

Thanks for that Casdon which is part of the line I mentioned earlier. Now all they have to do is link it up with Plymouth and there will be a second line into Devon and Cornwall which doesn't get washed away by the sea like the Dawlish line..

Susieq62

OMG please don’t send BJ to Leeds permanently ! I would be protesting endlessly ?.

Please don’t sent Boris to Manchester! Just imagine the spats between him and Andy Burnham, their toys would be chucked out of the pram all over the place! We have enough to put up with the disruption from the never ending road works on the M6 so called smart motorway.

Some people want their cake and eat it too! The South and London have to put up with Boris et Al, and high house prices and the M25 parking lot and probably a lot if other stuff I don't know about 'cos I very rarely go there. But it is the centre of the UK universe. Move that centre north and everything else follows! Rail links, roads, commerce...

I am speaking as an observer of course. Stuck in my little bit of backwater Norfolk I take an interest in all this as our taxes help pay for it. And it intrigues me. I did venture to London this summer and the wonders of using a train. Marvellous things. And the underground too. It just turns up. Every few minutes. No need to plan or book. I believe there are cities which have trams which bend in the middle. But I've not seen them. We do have buses. Old ones which I think were bought second hand from Manchester or somewhere. Our town has two an hour going into Norwwich. Coming back is rather hit and miss so we always drive everywhere. I do wonder why HS2 is being built, thinking from outside as an observer I do wonder. Sea levels are rising. London is under threat. Perhaps others are thinking the centre of the UK should move!

NfkDumpling

Some people want their cake and eat it too! The South and London have to put up with Boris et Al, and high house prices and the M25 parking lot and probably a lot if other stuff I don't know about 'cos I very rarely go there. But it is the centre of the UK universe. Move that centre north and everything else follows! Rail links, roads, commerce...

I am speaking as an observer of course. Stuck in my little bit of backwater Norfolk I take an interest in all this as our taxes help pay for it. And it intrigues me. I did venture to London this summer and the wonders of using a train. Marvellous things. And the underground too. It just turns up. Every few minutes. No need to plan or book. I believe there are cities which have trams which bend in the middle. But I've not seen them. We do have buses. Old ones which I think were bought second hand from Manchester or somewhere. Our town has two an hour going into Norwwich. Coming back is rather hit and miss so we always drive everywhere. I do wonder why HS2 is being built, thinking from outside as an observer I do wonder. Sea levels are rising. London is under threat. Perhaps others are thinking the centre of the UK should move!

... good post, and entertaining!

Dickens

Casdon

A bit of good news - this is what we need more of!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-59358794

... thanks for posting that - very interesting!

I’m old enough to remember travelling from Plymouth changing at Okehampton and then getting a puff puff to Delabole on the now extinct line that ran from Okehampton to Padstow. One of the loveliest train trips in the U.K. .

I was only 6/7 and put on the train on my own to spend a holiday with an Aunt.

My understanding is that the northern rail routes are still going to be improved without HS2 (I didn’t agree with this anyway), the improvements will be quicker too than waiting for HS2 to be built. The whole rail network needs to be more reliable and have huge investment and it shouldn’t all go to HS2. The pandemic has forced a rethink on spending and savings have to be made where ever possible.

nfk 2 an hour, you lucky thing!

The pandemic has forced a rethink on spending and savings have to be made where ever possible.

No it hasn't, Shropshirelass. The pandemic (and actions of the government such as buying more nuclear missiles) has proved that there is money to be spent if there is the political will to do so.

If you think that the pandemic money has been 'borrowed' and has to be repaid (which is what the government is relying on so that the electorate tolerates cuts to services and tax increases) can you tell us who it has been 'borrowed from?

In Europe and other parts of the world people travel their countries by rail more than we do. I have seen the brilliant rail systems that are in operation in Germany, Spain and France. I live in Scotland and over the years we have become a playground for the wealthy who own second homes in the beautiful rural spots, work in the cities and own more than one 4 x4 that gets them and their families around. Some even have their own aircraft and fly in and out of the smaller airports in Scotland.

Ayse in the original post said something they were unhappy about HS2 damaging trees, and the countryside, and yet the Government is steam hollering ahead with massive road building programmes. Aside from the blindingly obvious destruction of habitats, how does it help the UK's pretend "green credentials"? Cleary as far as this government is concerned COP26 was just a miserable photo op.

Another poster mentioned the "Crossrail" scheme and the benefits to London and the south-east corner and how it was leeching money from the rest of the country. This little timetable of events might be of interest to supporters of the cross-London schemes - "Crossrail" is approaching its 50th birthday - and it's not finished yet!!
- London Rail Study Report – Greater London Council/Dept of Environment – 1974
- Cross London Rail Link Proposal from British Rail – 1980
- Central London Rail Study published – January 1989
- 1991 Crossrail Bill published (71 pages) – cost £1.4 billion
- 2005 Crossrail Bill published (222 pages)
- 2008 Crossrail Act (253 pages) – provides the extension to Reading in the west

As far as high-speed rail is concerned, the UK is now at least 50 years behind the rest of Western Europe - and indeed parts of Eastern Europe. This whole London to Birmingham high-speed commuter line will not solve capacity issues either in the core routes, or elsewhere.

The Government in its latest U-turn have confirmed its status as a £100 billion white elephant, for which we will all have to pay, and receive no benefit.