Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

Why is it shocking that Weston Super Mare has built housing? No town is pickled in aspic and vying for chocolate box cover of the year. Towns aren't just for tourists.

Josianne

^ How many of us know the status of bodies of water thousands of miles away from our homes?^
Even I know there are sharks off the coast of Australia and that's a few thousand miles away.

What do you know about the Backstairs Passage?

No googling please.

Alegrias? I wasn't even thinking about Facebook, although even news stories abound on these kind of sites.
Whilst I respect your knowledge on facts and figures, I do not always understand why you are always so facetious about thoughts going on in people's heads.

The Great Escape is fascinating isn’t it Josianne ?
We’ve all seen the Steve McQueen film and this docu/drama shows how accurate it was. Last episode tonight.
Sorry I digress!

It's inhuman - a bit like the policies of the many countries that asylum seekers want to escape from. Seriously, is anybody going to watch a person or child drown without trying to help? Even those who say they would probably wouldn't walk away or am I being too generous?

growstuff

Why is it shocking that Weston Super Mare has built housing? No town is pickled in aspic and vying for chocolate box cover of the year. Towns aren't just for tourists.

Of course not! Don't be ridiculous. You have conveniently misinterpreted my post.

Josianne

^ How many of us know the status of bodies of water thousands of miles away from our homes?^
Even I know there are sharks off the coast of Australia and that's a few thousand miles away.

For goodness sake! Poke a hole in whatever bubble you reside.

Imagine you've just travelled thousands of miles and have ended up in miserable conditions in a camp. Imagine what your mental state would be. It's not hard to imagine that you mind be feeling pessimistic about your future and maybe even suicidal. Somebody comes along and offers you a hope of reaching somewhere better. Even if the risk of dying is high, it's probably less than doing nothing.

Sparklefizz

growstuff

Why is it shocking that Weston Super Mare has built housing? No town is pickled in aspic and vying for chocolate box cover of the year. Towns aren't just for tourists.

Of course not! Don't be ridiculous. You have conveniently misinterpreted my post.

Have I?

Maybe you didn't express yourself very well.

Sorry if I'm being thick, but why can't sailors rescue people in danger of drowning and take them back to France? Then they wouldn't be people smuggling, just helping people in peril.

Josianne

*Alegrias*? I wasn't even thinking about Facebook, although even news stories abound on these kind of sites.
Whilst I respect your knowledge on facts and figures, I do not always understand why you are always so facetious about thoughts going on in people's heads.

Because thoughts going on in people's heads sometimes need some reality and context outside the person's own little head.

HillyN

Sorry if I'm being thick, but why can't sailors rescue people in danger of drowning and take them back to France? Then they wouldn't be people smuggling, just helping people in peril.

It depends which country has control of the water they're in. If they're in British water, the people must be brought to the UK.

Josianne

*Alegrias*? I wasn't even thinking about Facebook, although even news stories abound on these kind of sites.
Whilst I respect your knowledge on facts and figures, I do not always understand why you are always so facetious about thoughts going on in people's heads.

Well its ridiculous Josianne. It wasn't me who brought up Social Media, by the way.

Anyway - so many ridiculous things are put forward to justify why these people should "know better", basically. If you or I were sitting in Calais, we'd know not to get on an inflatable to try to cross to the South Coast. We'd probably head back to the hotel and wait for a better day, or a ferry.

That is, unless we'd travelled thousands of miles with only the clothes we stand up in. Seen our homes destroyed and people we know killed. Be so close to our objective that we can actually see it, after goodness knows how many weeks travelling. And we'd paid goodness knows how much to the people traffickers. And we'd seen people just like us departing on small boats, only to arrive in England. And maybe phone us on our mobiles to tell us they'd got there, and that it was possible.

Thanks for the explanation, growstuff , that sounds reasonable, but if they are already in our waters then surely they are technically in the UK and can't be being smuggled in?

With regard to the dangers in the English Channel, I think it unlikely that many, if any, of the asylum seekers realise the sheer treacherousness of the channel, particularly in the winter time. It is indeed a small body of water, and seen on a map, probably seems extremely narrow and safe to cross. They cannot have any idea of the dangers in one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world. It is only sheer good luck that we haven’t had tragedies such as this regularly. I hope we don’t have any more.

HillyN

Thanks for the explanation, growstuff , that sounds reasonable, but if they are already in our waters then surely they are technically in the UK and can't be being smuggled in?

Quite!

My understanding is that many of the people aren't being "smuggled" in. They're quite open about landing on UK soil and claiming asylum, which they are perfectly entitled to do.

The ones who are being "smuggled" are those who try to live under the radar, after coming in the back of a lorry or on a short-term visa etc, and work without permission, etc. It's very hard to do that because there are so many checks when people want housing or healthcare, etc. They're the ones who are really being exploited because they have no option but to work for gang masters and have no hope of a "normal" life.

Although other countries cover larger areas than the UK, these people can’t live on mountain ranges and other inhospitable places.

We take lower numbers of refugees/asylum seekers than France, Germany, Italy or Greece, to name a few near neighbours

Families gather funds to set one healthy young man off on the perilous journey. It isn’t safe for grannies and whilst it’s dangerous for the young men, they may be marginally less at risk than young women. The aim is usually to try to join family in a European country. To get established and hope to have close family given permission to join.

Why does this need repeating endlessly

Because people would rather listen to arguments which confirm their bigotry.

They were saying on the news this morning that part of the problem is there is no way to legally apply for a visa unless you are physically in the UK. However, if there was a legal way of applying from outwith the UK then perhaps people wouldn't be so tempted to make the crossing. Unfortunately, the relatives of these poor people who died will still have to pay the people smugglers regardless. The government needs to find a safe way to bring the genuine asylum seekers to the UK and cut out the smugglers.

I’ve read Prit Patel wants to send asylum seekers to camps
In Rawanda. The Uk would provide financial support to Rawanda. Crazy

I don't really understand the motivation behind trying to find ways to just stop people even setting foot in the UK. Why don't we just let them come then deal with their claims quickly? If we say that they should stay in France and claim, why do we think that France should deal with people who want to come here? If that was the case, then the analogy is that France should be able to tell Germany to keep the people who want to claim asylum in France. And Germany can tell Poland..etc etc

And to reiterate what growstuff said before, they are traffickers, not smugglers.

Rwanda!!! Good grief, she’s lost it altogether! I had heard Albania and thought that crazy, but Rwanda! I’m lost for words.

Yes, MAUDI - I totally agree as the whole issue is the French security that are patrolling their beaches where these in their waters these flimsy dingys to come over the UK. They are taking NO action and just looking/watching and taking no notice, as presume France is not wanting to feed/cloth/give accommodation to them in the first place. All a very sad state of affairs. Our country is not big enough anyway to take much more of it all. Had read the Royal Life Boats had been told to not to comment/take action, but not sure entirely of any announcement which is a true statement or not, and that where all the dingys are landing that area is full to capacity of places for them to stay and now other Counties are being approached to take them in.

WonderBra

I'm a taxpayer, been working full time since I was 16, and for many years of that in very low paid jobs.

With the approx 80,000 asylum seekers in the UK at the moment, who receive just under £40 each per week, that costs me (one of currently just over £30,000,000 taxpayers in the UK ) the massive sum of 9p per week. In actual fact, I probably pay a lot less than that, as a lower rate taxpayer.
For less than 2p a day, I am absolutely happy to support these poor, scared, homeless people who have been in the absolutely devastating position of losing pretty much everything. To be honest, I'd happily pay an awful lot more.

I can't begin to imagine what desperation they must be going through, to even attempt the over-land journeys, let alone the sea crossings. They are human, many well educated, but regardless, human.

I really can't begin to understand those who would rather they drowned. These people are a valuable asset to our country, but regardless of whether they have any economic value to us, they are human.

Where is our compassion?

This thread is Chinese Whispers Wonderbra....since nobody at all has said that ( those who would rather they drowned) so you have no need to understand them.
The UK does have compassion, the asylum seekers/ migrants are helped to shore, given blankets and taken somewhere warm, issued with clothes and fed.Then they are part of a process to determine their status.
Once granted asylum here, they may or may not be a valuable asset, but they can stay here and build a life.

Presume these people in the first place are paying others (gangs) for their "presumed" safe journey over to the UK and what I find incredible is that when they arrive they are holding mobile phones - and not bags of their own personal items. Doesnt add up. Sure there are people from genuinely terrible countries who are fleeing but not all.