Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

I would take prison over watching someone die. Nothing else to be said.

I can't even decide where to start with this maddyone

So we'll try this:

Its not true

In 2001 people could come here using many routes, many of which never went near the EU; today many of those routes are closed off to them both by the pandemic and by the UK governments policies, so they come across the Channel in boats.

I didn’t know English buying second homes in Wales were fleeing a dangerous regime…. ooooh maybe they are.

I’m not sure what you’re saying Alegrias. What I’m saying is that far fewer asylum seekers come to the UK now than did previously, and therefore we should be able to accommodate them. Of course asylum seekers used many routes to come into the country in the past, and therefore I’m not sure why they choose to come using an unsafe route today. There are surely safer routes. I don’t think the EU had/have anything to do with it, although I do wonder how French police can just watch people setting off, including children, using just about the most unsafe route available.

I know that many planes stopped flying during part of the pandemic, but planes are flying again now. The ferries are sailing and are much safer than dinghies.

I would like to know why people WANT to come to the UK as opposed to any other country. Do we have a reputation for being NICE people? Just curious, we don't come out of international news very well.

Of course I would not watch someone drown whoever they were .
I do notice though that a lot of people are calling the immigrants asylum seekers. They are not asylum seekers, they are illegal immigrants. France is not a war zone.

It says they are paying anything between £3-6000 for a place in these boats. If they’re destitute how can they afford it and, if they can, why not travel by train or ferry?

vegansrock

I didn’t know English buying second homes in Wales were fleeing a dangerous regime…. ooooh maybe they are.

Why shouldn’t they - they want a better life, like all migrants. If Welsh Labour plans to provide free care to all in old age come to pass then even more will choose to retire here.

Forsythia

It says they are paying anything between £3-6000 for a place in these boats. If they’re destitute how can they afford it and, if they can, why not travel by train or ferry?

Probably because they are illegal immigrants they either don't have papers or the correct papers and they wouldn't get through immigration? I don't know.

We certainly agree about being able to accommodate asylum seekers maddyone. I think that the bit that is not true is that the police are just turning a blind eye; this has been talked about on this thread already so I'm not going to repeat it.

They choose the unsafe routes because that is all there is. They want to get here by any means possible. We had agreements with the rest of the EU when we were members that no longer apply, somebody posted about it above.

They are not 'illegal immigrants'. They are just 'immigrants'.

Their status as 'legal' or 'illegal' cannot be determined until their asylum applications have been processed.

Grandma2020 and everyone else wondering why people want to come to UK, put BBC 2 on and listen to the asylum seeker from Kettering (now a British citizen) has to say.
They are travelling from countries that we decimated through wars, through countries that treat them like criminals and worse, to a country that they think will welcome them and treat them with compassion!
I am in despair reading some of your comments! Yesterday's thread was about 2nd homes ....I'll bet these people wish they had such trivial problems to think about!

This is an interesting article, especially this bit.
"Since 2015, France has absorbed 160,000 asylum seekers, Britain less than 10,000.
The great majority of the people who illegally (and invisibly) cross land borders into France every day are people who speak a little French and have family or contacts in France. They want to stay in France.
A minority, the Calais migrants, come to France because they want to reach the UK. A very small minority of this minority are people who have had asylum requests turned down in EU countries.
When French police clear makeshift camps in the Calais area – confiscating tents and even sleeping bags – the migrants are given a chance to go to French shelters elsewhere and seek asylum in France. Only a handful ever do so."

www.thelocal.fr/20211125/opinion-france-protects-uk-from-migrant-crisis-a-fact-britain-will-never-accept/

But how can legal or illegal be determined if they destroy all papers by which they can be identified?

I doubt any jury would convict a British or other sailor, professional, amateur or volunteer, for rescuing a drowning person at sea but we should not put sailors at legal risk in any case. This clause is another example of Patel flailing around. When will people realise that immigrants, especially young ones, are necessary to the economic future of the UK whether they are refugees or economic migrants? It's time to break up the Home Office and reset our attitudes. If legal measures are needed they should be directed at the criminal gangs, not sailors risking their own lives and freedom to rescue those in peril on the sea.

Sarnia

Europe and France, in particular, have their knickers in a twist over Brexit and although they are happy to pocket our £54m to stop migrant boats, do nothing to stop them. Incapacitating their boats would be a start but they clearly do not want the migrants in their own country so make no attempt to stop the boats setting out to sea. Out of sight, out of mind. Goodness knows what the answer is but Britain seems out of ideas on how to deal with this major problem.

But they have not receive this money. Moreover, these people are using the ninety kilometers of coast line, that is to say if the police are in one area they set off in another. How many police should be on duty twenty- four hours a day seven days a week?

Police have already arrested people traffickers .

Thank you Mamie for your post. I heard something very similar on Today this morning.
The problem here is that the whole issue has been aggravated by the overblown claims of some newspapers fed by the likes of Nigel Farage, often to try to manipulate Joe Public to vote in a certain way .

So why not accept the UK’s offer to help patrol the beaches * Mokryna* ? Obviously it won’t solve the problem completely but any additional help that will prevent another tragedy like this one happening has got to be worth it surely?

Coastpath

I wish we could calmly, amicably and sensibly work together with other countries to resolve this. We need to stop people dying in the channel and end all crime linked to people trafficking without delay.

Surely it is possible - essential - for our governments to work together to devise a plan. We need a workable plan as climate change will mean more people leaving their homelands and seeking refuge here.

We need workers. These people need safe homes, some need to be near family. The RNLI does not need to risk their lives.

People like Nigel Farage whip up hatred and spread misinformation and do nothing to resolve the situation. As an MEP he had years to help resolve this and he did nothing. If people in small boats coming to the UK meant so much to him there was his chance to make a positive change - to do something constructive and positive with his one life. He did nothing about it.

I am happy to pay for this government collaboration and the making of a plan. I am happy to pay for the ethical and legal care of asylum seekers from my taxes. I think this is exactly the sort of thing I pay taxes for. When asylum seekers become UK workers they will most likely pay more into the tax system than I do. They will pay for the next group of desperate people who come to our country to work, raise children and enjoy the safety and benefits we have. They might well end up caring for me when I am unable to do so myself in future.

??????

An excellent post - I agree entirely.

Isn't there a difference in rescuing someone who is drowning or in imminent danger of drowning to those who are at risk. Very subtle difference. To me anyone on one of those inflatable beds you see at the seaside is at risk but no-one rushes to pull them out. Terrible what happened yesterday though especially if officials watched the whole affair before they even took to the water.

Whitewavemark2

You know last evening, I could no longer post on this thread because I was so profoundly upset at some of the callous, inhumane posts that utterly lacked empathy if any kind.

We are better than this!

and me. If I had posted what I really thought about some of the posts ( and the posters) I would probably have been banned from GN. It is very troubling to read posts on FB and such and realise that you really don't like a lot of people you share a country and a nationality with.

maddyone

I’m not sure what you’re saying Alegrias. What I’m saying is that far fewer asylum seekers come to the UK now than did previously, and therefore we should be able to accommodate them. Of course asylum seekers used many routes to come into the country in the past, and therefore I’m not sure why they choose to come using an unsafe route today. There are surely safer routes. I don’t think the EU had/have anything to do with it, although I do wonder how French police can just watch people setting off, including children, using just about the most unsafe route available.

I saw film yesterday of lots of people being loaded onto boats. I assume the people organising it were the criminal gang members.

A car with what looked like two policemen were watching. Do you really think they'd stand any chance if these gangs are as ruthless as we are told they are? Apparently they called for back up i.e. more manpower, but it didn't arrive until the boats had left.

I imagine France has a finite number of police officers and they can't all being on every beach in sufficient numbers to tackle these people.

I think that is why we see French police watching as it is all they can do.

Gwyneth

So why not accept the UK’s offer to help patrol the beaches * Mokryna* ? Obviously it won’t solve the problem completely but any additional help that will prevent another tragedy like this one happening has got to be worth it surely?

Or maybe the UK could offer to take a fair share of asylum seekers?