Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

So what was the point of bringing Poland into this? The issues in Poland are entirely different to ours here.

If it's not to say that worse things are happening elsewhere, was it to try to make Kali look as though she was wrong for praising the EU?

And the reason we can't send people back to France so easily is because we are no longer in the EU.

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

So what was the point of bringing Poland into this? The issues in Poland are entirely different to ours here.

If it's not to say that worse things are happening elsewhere, was it to try to make Kali look as though she was wrong for praising the EU?

And the reason we can't send people back to France so easily is because we are no longer in the EU.

Why would we send these folks back to France?

If their asylum claim fails they should be repatriated to their Country of birth.

As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member. Predictable and not helpful.

I have yet to see anyone come up with a credible solution to these desperate peoples plight.

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

The whole point of brexit was supposedly to take back control and reduce immigration. So if brexit is such a great idea why are more people entering the country illegally? It can’t be blamed on covid can it. So the main reason for brexit obviously isn’t working. And before anyone says brexit wasn’t about immigration someone said on one of the political programmes that it was (can’t remember who it was or which programme I’m afraid).

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/17/uk-minister-admits-big-fall-in-returns-of-boat-arrivals-since-brexit

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

Different rules applied then surely you know that as you voted for Brexit?

There were less asylum seekers coming to the U.K. as the EUs rules say that those seeking asylum in the EU should do so in the first EU country you enter.

As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member.

Because sometimes it's true.

The title in the Independent 'We are now paying the price of political posturing'

both in the UK, and with the EU. It started with Brexit, and Johnson/Patel.

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

That is NOT the point- fewer arrived because our EU partners stopped them, and often in quite violent and cruel ways- camps bulldozed and set on fire, people beaten up, and worse.
I suggest you have never been to Calais and seen the rows after rows of razor wire near the ferry ports and Tunnel- and the constant presence of CRS in large numbers. Those guys are scary!

Alegrias1

^As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member.^

Because sometimes it's true.

Who? Where?

It always makes me smile when the people who want to let all migrants into England also applaud Wales Labour FM for wanting to halt the English coming to Wales and buying retirement/holiday homes....comical, no?

There's nothing to smile about in this Pantglas2, nothing at all. Nothing comical whatsoever.

Especially when you are making spurious and ridiculous politically motivated comments.

Ridiculous comment pantglas. No correlation whatsoever.

Pantglas2

It always makes me smile when the people who want to let all migrants into England also applaud Wales Labour FM for wanting to halt the English coming to Wales and buying retirement/holiday homes....comical, no?

Oh dear

The BBC are saying that Priti Patel is to speak with her French counterpart today to discuss the response to the tragedy.

This could be the start of an answer.

Arguing on here is doing nothing positive. We could be part of the answer. I don't see anyone on Gransnet saying it is a good thing to let people drown. Even those with the most hard line stance on immigration would surely be the first to run to help a person who has fallen over in the street....and now is our chance to run to help these our fellow man in France. To resolve this terrible problem do we not just need to put our feelings about France, the EU and whatever aside?

Perhaps something we could all do today is write to Mrs Patel, the PM and our MPs and express how heartbroken we all are that in 2021 men, women and children are dying in our seas and that our fishermen and the RNLI are having to pull corpses from the water. For the sake of humanity we would like the government to work with all partners necessary to resolve this solvable problem. To sit quietly, with their hands in their laps, listen hard and then come up with a workable agreement.

Especially when you are making spurious and ridiculous politically motivated comments. alegrias

Ah, yes.....indeed!

I see that one asylum seeker who landed yesterday was an" Afghan soldier who had worked with British soldiers. His family decided to risk their lives to cross the Channel after they waited so long for help from Britain" (Times today )
We can't know what it is like living in countries where you fear for your life.
I do worry reading some of the comments often based screaming headlines of the Nigel Farage variety, not fact.

I was shocked to see pictures French police officers in their vehicle watching people launch an inflatable dinghy. It seems that the French stand-off with the UK is more important than lives.

Its a thing with GN that people launch into posting without reading previous posts. Understandable of course, busy people can't spend their time reading pages and pages of posts on Social Media.

So, here's a request for ideas.

If someone posts something that is diametrically opposite to the truth and has been show to be so several times on the thread, but they haven't bother reading it and just made their claim anyway, what is the answer?

(Me, I'm going for a coffee before I explode)

Figures from the ONS just published

64% of asylum requests are granted.
48% are granted on appeal.

My maths makes it about 80% requests granted. 80% genuine asylum seekers.

Because of Home Office inefficiency there are some 83,733 asylum claims waiting to be settled.

That is nearly 84,000 people we are (rightly) supporting because they are unable to take jobs to support themselves. We have about 1 million job vacancies.... (I make that 11 jobs for every person waiting for a decision)

The fact that they are getting minimal state support is exacerbating the hatred felt for them (egged on by the lies told about the support they get while waiting). So these poor souls face a double bind, hated for wanting to come to the UK and hated for the support they get when they are here.

The Home Office is not at all good at repatriating the failed asylum seekers.. Adds to the hate...

We have to face the fact that the UK bears some responsibility for the 'problem' of asylum seekers too.

Net immigration to the UK is fairly stable, asylum seekers are not adding to a 'problem' unless you see all immigration as a 'problem'.

Just saying.....

I cannot believe the French don't know who is selling these boats and who is buying them, they really are turning a blind eye and really don't care as long as they get rid of the migrants

I refer you to my post of 10:46, m'lud.

(Kettle's boiling)

We are all human beings, each deserving of compassion and respect. Surely built into that premise is the instinctual reaction to help anyone in distress? ( Perhaps not endangering oneself by interfering in violent fights as recent stabbings have shown, but in those instances ringing the Police immediately).
How could anyone ever sleep again if they had deliberately turned their back on someone drowning?

Wow how far we've come. From little boats crossing the channel, saving life's at Dunkirk, to being told to stand down and watch people die, or be prosecuted as a criminal. What is our government thinking.

maisiebon

I cannot believe the French don't know who is selling these boats and who is buying them, they really are turning a blind eye and really don't care as long as they get rid of the migrants

I think this is true.

Apparently in 2001 there were 100000 asylum claims. There are far fewer today, therefore it is not correct to say that the EU prevented asylum seekers entering the UK. Since we apparently have far fewer asylum claimants now, it seems to be reasonable that we offer asylum to those who do seek it here.