What will the judiciary do?

Dickens

I think it's a slippery slope. A minefield in fact.

Protests are by nature 'loud', and the mere presence of a group whose ideology you oppose, is 'annoying'.

It's so ambiguous. I see trouble ahead.

Right, and they are exercising their right to protest upheld by the courts.

The question is that is the spirit of the law being undermined by the new police act?

The problem with protesters is when they damage property or stop others going about their lawful business. This is what needs to be addressed.

But we already have laws to deal with that.

Alegrias1

But we already have laws to deal with that.

Exactly

GSM FACT ,when oil was dicovered in SCOTTISH waters the UK was in deep financial difficulties ,look up when the £ was tied to the USA for security or when the IMF became involved in UK finance ,the sick man of Europe they called us.Fast forward just a few years when oil was giving the UK treasury £60 A SECOND and Whisky £38 a minute ,,,are you really telling me that Scotland is /was too poor to support ourselves? Norway took less oil out and has a £3 TRillion oil fund!!
England was developed off the back of Scottish oil,but that is gone now we know and we always though it would eb a bonus BUT in its place we have renewables powering 97% of our needs and growing by the day ...we even send up to 30% south to england yet Electricity is more expensive here than in the south of England AND we have tp pay to put it on the "national grid" Some union this!! Every other supplier who contributes to to grid GETS PAID .
If you can let me know when you wre promoted to head admin and given the power to tell me when and what to post then and only then will I stop telling the truth about the toxic union .Now I have a very sick relative to visit so I'll wish you a good day .

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

But we already have laws to deal with that.

Exactly

I believe that the police were pointing that out, too, when the Bill was first published. It's populist window dressing. But scary, all the same, especially the proposed prison sentences...

The only conclusion that I can draw from this draconian and unnecessary bill is that the government is intent on reducing our civil liberties and controlling dissent.

Agreed WWM2

Dare I mention the word 'dictatorship' ?

I guess I do dare because the usual deriders of signs of a slide into dictatorship won't be bothering to read this thread.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

But we already have laws to deal with that.

Exactly

I believe that the police were pointing that out, too, when the Bill was first published. It's populist window dressing. But scary, all the same, especially the proposed prison sentences...

Prison will only affect the extremists who protest about everything while living on benefits, the vast majority of offenses would be dealt with by fines or community sentences. The prospect of a heavy fine for a first offence would make the majority think twice before disruptive protesting.

Whitewavemark2

The only conclusion that I can draw from this draconian and unnecessary bill is that the government is intent on reducing our civil liberties and controlling dissent.

They (government) are well aware there is a lot of dissent - on both sides of the divide, on the Pandemic issues, Brexit, Climate, and Immigration.

There have already been protests, and I think the anti-Leave contingent are planning for post-Covid demonstrations. If there ever is a 'post-Covid'.

I think they are genuinely afraid of civil strife - I won't say civil war, but even that doesn't seem so remote a possibility as it once did.

The RW media - tabloids in particular - are continually stirring the pot, keeping up the angst and fuelling the restlessness.

I have little optimism for the near future of this country. That letter to "Dear Emmanuel" posted on social media was the last straw for me. I will not rant, I'm too depressed, and too deflated to get into an argument with GN'ers who are pro-Johnson. But this is really NOT the way to conduct international relations.

Katie59

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

But we already have laws to deal with that.

Exactly

I believe that the police were pointing that out, too, when the Bill was first published. It's populist window dressing. But scary, all the same, especially the proposed prison sentences...

Prison will only affect the extremists who protest about everything while living on benefits, the vast majority of offenses would be dealt with by fines or community sentences. The prospect of a heavy fine for a first offence would make the majority think twice before disruptive protesting.

Are you talking about the existing law?

Prison will only affect the extremists who protest about everything while living on benefits, the vast majority of offenses would be dealt with by fines or community sentences. The prospect of a heavy fine for a first offence would make the majority think twice before disruptive protesting.

What makes you so sure of that, Katie59?

Is this the old 'if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear' argument?

GSMUnder international law, the entity that borrows this debt, in the case the UK, will be solely responsible for the debt accrued by that entity ( UK ). Scotland will legally not be liable for any of the debt built up by the current and past UK governments. If the UK was actually paying off the debt ( currently it only pays the interest on the debt ) then Scotland would be liable for a share. This is a fact.

.
This Scotland has debt argument, has about as much substance as the " too wee , too poor " argument. It has been debunked.
We must ensure that these falsehoods are not believed again. The facts are out there ( mostly ) to be found. You just have to dig deep. Thankfully, there are sensible folk spending time debunking every lie.
Saor Alba 2023.
www.thenational.scot/.../19743645.kate-forbes.../...

Sorry your link didn’t work. I don’t need a lecture in law, international or otherwise, it was my profession for almost 40 years. You need to understand the difference between deficit and debt.

Debt is the money 'lent' to the government by purchase of / investment in (depending on how you want to look at it) Treasury bonds, Premium bonds, National Savings and any other government issued investment vehicle.

The deficit is the difference between government revenue (income) and government spending if the first is less than the second.

That's the simple version...

I hope paddy will read your very clear explanation Maizie.

But when you start considering that the 'debt' contributes to the deficit by way of interest payments it all starts to get a bit muddied.

MaizieD I've long been of the opinion that we should shift the Scottish border back to Hadrian's wall, but I wouldn't mind if it went further south and encompassed Durham. Should we start a movement? We could organise demonstrations (but we'd have to be quick or they'll lock us up)

When Scotland becomes independent will the Scots all be demanding their loans back from the RUK Government?

eg cashing in their Premium Bonds?

Maybe you could choose to make them Scottish or English PB's Calistemon. How many do you think would stick with the English?

trisher

MaizieD I've long been of the opinion that we should shift the Scottish border back to Hadrian's wall, but I wouldn't mind if it went further south and encompassed Durham. Should we start a movement? We could organise demonstrations (but we'd have to be quick or they'll lock us up)

Come on up ladies, we'll put the kettle on.

Currently interest rates are very low so interest has a small effect and in the UK debt does not get repaid, as one loan is paid back, another is taken out. Debt is very high at present due to the cost of Covid, prior to that it was around 80% of GDP which is comparable to many other states.

Katie59

Currently interest rates are very low so interest has a small effect and in the UK debt does not get repaid, as one loan is paid back, another is taken out. Debt is very high at present due to the cost of Covid, prior to that it was around 80% of GDP which is comparable to many other states.

The larger part of the 'debt' (the money created by QE) is nominal, as I have pointed out before. The Bank of England will not take actual interest payments from the government nor will it expect repayment. I don't understand where this unnecessary worry about it comes from.

I wish those who want to talk about Scotland would start another thread. This is an important subject.

Dickens puts it very well IMO.

It would surely have been better if new legislation had been drafted against actions e.g in the disruption of public services rather than mere words of shouty protest which is what makes it all open to interpretation.

I also think that there are growing numbers who enjoy protesting for its own sake and get satisfaction out of making an anti-authority fuss about anything. I find that as worrying as anything.