The leader has become a liability

Dickens

Casdon

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

His rating has slipped - for the moment.

I'm sure the party will be working hard to restore faith - that might mean ditching Johnson. But he, 'Boris', as he is affectionately called by his supporters does maintain a certain pulling power - especially with those who think "he's doing his best" and that our current shambolic state is simply due to the pandemic.

Failing a catastrophe that can be laid at his door - he may well survive. Sleaze does not overly bother his fans, "all politicians are the same" they say. His lies do not faze them either, "all politicians lie". He's given them what they wanted, Brexit, and he tells them what they want to hear - about the dastardly French, the "bullying" EU, migrants treating this country "as their own". His buffoonery is seen as a great sense of humour.

I would not be at all surprised if he won another election.

Big assumption. I think only if they can pin the coming economic hardship for the voter on everything else except Brexit etc then he may win another election. But nothing focuses the mind more than a hit in the pocket.

Hear hear Coastpath.

A TED talk in 2019 was entitled "Why do incompetent men become leaders?"

The speaker, a man, said men are typically more deceived about their talents than are women. To fool other people that you are better than you actually are, you first have to fool yourself. Being unaware of limitations increases the possibility of being a boss and most male leaders are incompetent. He added that the best leaders are boring!

Do we have, at the moment, a very fine example of the Dunning/Kruger effect?

Do we have, at the moment, a very fine example of the Dunning/Kruger effect?

And Stockholm Syndrome?

BJ was undecided at first wether to back Brexit or oppose it, in the end he chose backing Brexit as his best chance of becoming PM which was his ambition. His buffoonery was popular with voters and his very rosy portrayal of a post Brexit Britain landed him with a majority of 80, beyond his wildest dreams.

Now of course “the buck stops here” the plan did not work as intended, in addition Covid as well, it became his worst nightmare and he reverted to playing catch up. In all honesty in these Covid dominated days I really don’t believe anyone else would do better, nor do I get a sense that anyone else wants the job

When we finally overcome coronavirus new candidates will emerge to replace him and he will go quietly with a sigh of relief, because he is well out of his depth

Whitewavemark2

Dickens

Casdon

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

His rating has slipped - for the moment.

I'm sure the party will be working hard to restore faith - that might mean ditching Johnson. But he, 'Boris', as he is affectionately called by his supporters does maintain a certain pulling power - especially with those who think "he's doing his best" and that our current shambolic state is simply due to the pandemic.

Failing a catastrophe that can be laid at his door - he may well survive. Sleaze does not overly bother his fans, "all politicians are the same" they say. His lies do not faze them either, "all politicians lie". He's given them what they wanted, Brexit, and he tells them what they want to hear - about the dastardly French, the "bullying" EU, migrants treating this country "as their own". His buffoonery is seen as a great sense of humour.

I would not be at all surprised if he won another election.

Big assumption. I think only if they can pin the coming economic hardship for the voter on everything else except Brexit etc then he may win another election. But nothing focuses the mind more than a hit in the pocket.

... yep, it is a bit of an assumption.

I'm going on the interaction I've had on Facebook with many Brexit / Johnson supporters (I don't get out much!).

In spite of some facts, figures and statistical information being presented, the belief in Johnson and rightness of Brexit is, shall I say, 'strong'. With some it seems to come from the gut... they have faith. And, of course, the pandemic has had an effect.

You're right about the hit to the pocket - but if that, too, can be blamed on the pandemic?

The feeling I got when conversing on FB was that there was a lot of dissatisfaction with Johnson's government, but not because Brexit was a mistake, it was because it wasn't Brexity enough.

God - so bloody depressing. It reminds me so much of what I hear coming from the USA and Trump supporters.

There was always an opinion that beneath Johnson’s blustering buffoonery there lay a great intellect. Even I thought that, on becoming PM, he would become more ministerial but, alas, it is beyond his capability. In fact, I don’t even know what he is capable of to be honest.

Well I think Boris might well win another term to be honest. Keir Starmer IS boring. Yes I get it - we’re not here to be entertained but goodness he does drone on doesn’t he? Once he’s up on his hind legs he’s reluctant to sit back down again any time soon. A captive audience comes to mind.

Time will tell I suppose but I wouldn’t get your hopes up WWmk2.

Oh please, give me a boring, intelligent, humane, educated, experienced, honest man... any day.

What with Trump and Johnson, we surely have seen what the alternative achieves (not).

The very fact that so many here still support him- say ...

well, best if I don't put my thoughts into words.

Shall we never learn from history?

The feeling I got when conversing on FB was that there was a lot of dissatisfaction with Johnson's government, but not because Brexit was a mistake, it was because it wasn't Brexity enough.

Good Heavens!

Just how Brexity do they want it?

Perhaps they'd like to up anchors and tow the UK miles out into the Atlantic Ocean?

Hi MayBee ?
I think part of Boris’ appeal is that he is a libertarian. He encourages us to ‘look on the bright side’ and have faith that things will be fine. Starmer just seems gloomy by comparison. He’d button us down even tighter if he could right now. Mind you, some folks would love that.

I like the way Boris at least tries to give us some autonomy with our lives. Unlike Sturgeon and Drakeford too.

A lighter touch with guidelines rather than mandates is very popular.

The thing is Urmstongran, in the short term this isn’t about Labour at all, it’s about whether his colleagues are prepared to put up with him making a first rate pillock of himself so frequently, and so publicly. They will oust him if they think another leader will be more credible to the electorate - I think that day is fast approaching, you can sense the frustration in the way Tory MPs are behaving.

MayBee70

There was always an opinion that beneath Johnson’s blustering buffoonery there lay a great intellect. Even I thought that, on becoming PM, he would become more ministerial but, alas, it is beyond his capability. In fact, I don’t even know what he is capable of to be honest.

... I thought the same - didn't really pay much attention to him tho' prior to his appointment as PM.

An over-zealous narcissist whose incompetence far outweighs his ambition.

I think the fatal blow will be dealt from within the Tory party, there are rumblings from the back bench and as we know, the party can be ruthless. I hope that Johnson has a humiliating end, he shows no loyalty himself to friends and colleagues ( let alone spouses and employers).

Urmstongran

Hi MayBee ?
I think part of Boris’ appeal is that he is a libertarian. He encourages us to ‘look on the bright side’ and have faith that things will be fine. Starmer just seems gloomy by comparison. He’d button us down even tighter if he could right now. Mind you, some folks would love that.

I like the way Boris at least tries to give us some autonomy with our lives. Unlike Sturgeon and Drakeford too.

A lighter touch with guidelines rather than mandates is very popular.

... well Brown's "light touch" regulation on the banks didn't work out too good though did it?

This was written by some else, and perhaps she says it much better than I would have done, so sharing here

''The problem is, I’m not sure the country has the ability to ‘wise up.’ The portion of uneducated, traditionally working class voters who voted Tory still think he’s amazing. My own mother in point. Working class background, sadly uneducated, lifelong Labour voter up until the last 2 elections. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that her changed stance appears to have occurred at the same time as her use of social media. She is continuously drip fed rightwing propaganda and rightwing policies which are utterly against her own interests. She is continuously spouting sound bites from Tories and right wing rags. Yet Johnson and his ilk literally wouldn’t p*ss on her if she was on fire. She was a cleaner most of her life who lives in a council house. She just doesn’t get any of this. She has no intellectual ability to to see beyond what the Tories tell her. No ability to question things. I told her about the Downing St Xmas party last night. Her reaction? No comment whatsoever then launched into a large rant about the Labour Party and how she never wants to see them in power. I mean, the two things aren’t even related. But the poison, the brainwashing runs deep.''

yes, this.

... well Brown's "light touch" regulation on the banks didn't work out too good though did it?

At least he and Darling saved the day when the GFC hit. Without the quantitative easing people's bank accounts would have been suddenly empty...

... well Brown's "light touch" regulation on the banks didn't work out too good though did it?

True Dickens, but that was when Gordon Brown was Chancellor. Rishi Sunak is at the helm. Not Boris. Sunak is a banker of some repute apparently...

MaizieD

^... well Brown's "light touch" regulation on the banks didn't work out too good though did it?^

At least he and Darling saved the day when the GFC hit. Without the quantitative easing people's bank accounts would have been suddenly empty...

... all true. I'm just wary of the "light touch" regulation principle.

"A principles-based approach does not work with individuals who have no principles"... said someone, and I can't remember who it was...

“Just how Brexity do they want it? “

There is no doubt they wanted a “cake and eat it “ deal, the “no deal is better than a bad deal” was just a bluff.

Even the zealots knew that no deal would be chaos, in the end cobbled together a pigs ear that delivered very little, whilst making it more difficult to trade with our biggest customer and depriving us of the migrant labour we need.

Based only on my intuition, I think Johnson actually wants to go, and no longer really cares much about anything to do with governing the country. The more he fools around, the more he gives me the impression that he’s opting out and having fun on the way.

Tbh, when I saw the thread title on the active list I thought it was about Keir Starmer.?

He always was a liability though wasn't he? Surely there is no point in his life when a thinking person could have looked at him and thought him anything other than a total liability. His school report, his choice of club at Oxford, his relationships, his problem counting his children, colluding to have someone beaten up, being sacked more than once, being repeatedly caught cheating and lying and much more.

If you were running a small business and he came for a job, would you, knowing the entirety of his history, employ him? The fact that the Tories chose him and people voted for him says everything you need to know about them. They didn't care about his morals or skills, they just wanted a job (keeping power and 'doing' Brexit) done quick and dirty by someone who believes himself beyond the rules that bind most decent human beings.