1922 Committee invite letters of no confidence.

Huge incentive to get those letters in

A C Grayling on twitter

@acgrayling
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14m
If the spaffer gets indications from Shropshire today that his P45 is in the post, it will suggest that his PM-ship will prove to be one of the shorter ones on record. That will be a hopeful sign for our country, that we won't put up with rubbish for too long.

And in a very harmonious way I agree with what you have said about mitigation growstuff.

I think we've converged on agreement maddyone, as we often do

I wish that England had kept to the same restrictions as Scotland.

I’d rather be standing next to someone who had both Alegrias and I’d hope they’d had their booster too, but obviously that’s not possible. I agree with you that the best way forward would be for a person to show a negative lateral flow test for entry into any venue. Unfortunately this can easily be rigged by someone getting someone else to do their test. I don’t know how this could be remedied to be honest, but I do think the lateral flow test in the last 24 hours would be a good way forward.

Galaxy

You need to find balance especially if the results of school closures are causing damage to children in other ways, saying keep in contact with vulnerable children is honestly like saying hold back the tide please, they need eyes on them, and frequently even that's not enough. I work in early years so I suppose I have a vested interest in that every time I am at work I am at risk, no masks, lots of runny noses etc. But for me I am not sure I support the closures of school again.

If keeping schools open is such a priority, then mitigations should have been put in place - no excuses. It's absolutely unacceptable to accept the high number of cases in schools, but claim that it's worth it because nothing could be done to mitigate the risk - it could!

Its different in Scotland. We've had vaccine passports for large events for a few months. I disagree with that. And its clearly having no impact on the situation. One good thing is that they have extended them now so that you can show proof of a negative LFT, and also they have not extended them to allowing entry to pubs, cafes etc.

We've also got a bit of guidance about not meeting up with more than 3 households at once, and social distancing is back for shops. I think that's different for England?

Why do so many people who bang on about their freedoms not realise that whilst they have the freedom not to be vaccinated, those of us who are, have the freedom not to have to come into contact with them. By that I am not suggesting that we should self isolate and not interact with our close families and friends.

With freedom comes responsibility and I don't think many of the freedom proponents realise that.

I don't disagree with the bringing back of more restrictions maddyone. I do think that the focus on the Tory MPs who voted against the government is important because it was a huge rebellion, but not because they voted against a measure which clearly does not work. I watched a bit of the debate and there was an MP, I didn't catch her name, saying that we should be bringing in measures that actually have an effect on the state of the pandemic.

And no matter what anybody says, vaccine passports don't work and they have a significant impact on the way this country is set up, pandemic or no pandemic. There are often Grans on here saying that they have vaccine passports in their country and its all fine. Next time that happens, take a look at the infection rates in the country being talked about and see if its "fine". (I'm looking at you, France.)

If the proposal had been for a pass that showed that you had had a negative LFT in the past 24 hours, or so, more people would have voted for it. I think. But the vaccine part is too much. Who would you rather be standing next to; a person who had their second dose six months ago or one who had a negative test yesterday?

Government is either guided by the science or not. We believe the experts or we ignore them. You can’t do a part job on the issue. Brexit should have taught us that.

Some people will not like some of the measures as alegrias has made clear.

Do these measures affect Scotland alegrias or are they different?

I take your points as usual Alegrias. You always argue a good point. However, given the circumstances with rapidly rising infections, and as yet, we don’t know how serious this variant may be, especially for older, vaccinated people, I feel that it’s time to bring back some more restrictions, at least for a short period of time, until we know the extent of the possible repercussions of this variant. Today France have declared that from Saturday people will no longer be able to travel to or from the UK in the light of the rapid spread of Omicron. What do we do? Abolish the red list! I don’t believe allowing the virus the freedom to spread though society is the right way to go. That’s why I’m upset about what happened in Parliament earlier this week.

maddyone

I’ve no time for those idiots who voted against BJ because they value their freedoms. What freedoms are those exactly? The freedom to infect and get infected apparently.

You're annoyed with the people who vote because they value their freedoms? What on earth can justify such a statement?

I have no doubt some of the no-voters on Tuesday did so to get at Boris. But my MP is Lib Dem and she voted against, along with the rest of her party. 3 out of 4 of the measures passed without any trouble - 1 was passed unanimously.

Just because a significant number of MPs decided to vote against online medical ID, on the basis of (1) the fact that they make no difference and (2) that they overstep the mark on the way our society is constituted, does not make them idiots.

Although it was implied yesterday that because I oppose vaccine passports I'm an anti-vaxxer. What is this country coming to, really?

I agree with you Galaxy. I worked in Early Years too, but am now retired. I wonder if little Arthur would have been protected if he had been attending school as a vulnerable child. We’ll never know now.

You need to find balance especially if the results of school closures are causing damage to children in other ways, saying keep in contact with vulnerable children is honestly like saying hold back the tide please, they need eyes on them, and frequently even that's not enough. I work in early years so I suppose I have a vested interest in that every time I am at work I am at risk, no masks, lots of runny noses etc. But for me I am not sure I support the closures of school again.

Thanks for all your posts, growstuff

It's madness to claim that schools keep vulnerable children safe.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I know that schools were open for key-workers, they were also open for vulnerable children, however according to the last report I read on the NSPCC website the majority of vulnerable children ^fell through the safety net^

So target vulnerable children by keeping in contact with them and involving social services, if necessary.

Nothing changes the fact that schools are unsafe environments for everybody and schoolchildren have been the main drivers of infection.

School closures need to happen. They're already being affected and it's better to have controlled closures rather than knee jerk reactions. Some pupils have been sent home with laptops, in case they don't re-open in January and plans are in place for online learning and/or staggered opening times.

It's just not acceptable to promise to keep schools open when very few measures were ever taken to mitigate risks in schools, for pupils or staff.

Whatever proper measures are, with so many MPs against them, we have no chance of stopping this pandemic any time soon.

I’ve no time for those idiots who voted against BJ because they value their freedoms. What freedoms are those exactly? The freedom to infect and get infected apparently.

MaizieD I know that schools were open for key-workers, they were also open for vulnerable children, however according to the last report I read on the NSPCC website the majority of vulnerable children fell through the safety net

You could certainly see that Chris Whitty was back to ‘uncomfortable’ mode last night on the broadcast. I think he is really worried about the impact of the Christmas at all costs message. The government must adhere to scientific advice regardless of the 1922 Committee.

Whitewavemark2 free to be infected brigade I assume you mean the MPs voting against Covid Passports?

Showing a Covid Passport is no guarantee that you cannot be infected with Covid, or if you are asymptomatic that you can transmit Covid.

School closures will be a disaster both educationally and for the mental health of our young people.

Of course, the disruption caused by large numbers of staff and children off sick with covid or isolating doesn't have a bad effect at all?

Let's not forget that schools didn't shut during lockdown. They were open all the time for the children of key workers.

It would be good if the government were to act to, at the very least, fund schools to buy air filters, which are proven to filter out the covid virus, and get them installed during the Christmas break to give children and teachers a safer environment to return to after the holiday.