Horse Puncher sacked from teaching job

As others have said, there is a lot of cruelty, deliberate and incidental in the horse world both racing and leisure.

I don't know much about racing, JJ2, (which I think is inherently cruel anyway in the use of immature horses) but I've been around the leisure horse world for a lot of years now and I've seen very little cruelty on show.

MaizieD

To be honest, Doodledog, I don't think this would have got as far as a court of law.

No, I'm guessing not, or it would have.

My point is that the penalty she has suffered because of trial by SM is greater than it would have been if the offence had been tried by law.

I am in no way defending her actions, but that can't be right, can it?

Doodledog did you miss that trisher was defending what she did?

FarNorth

Doodledog did you miss that trisher was defending what she did?

I saw it as trisher pointing out that there may be more to the footage than was shown.

Personally, I doubt that there is another way to see it - it was very wrong, and she should be called to account. My point is not defending her at all - it is that we have laws for a reason, and we can't expect protection from them if people can decide for themselves what should be punishable and what the punishment should be. That is mob rule, and is not desirable at all, IMO.

People do all sorts of things that are wrong, and unless the law says that they go to jail they usually keep their job and are not hounded or sent death threats. They pay the fine, do the community service, or attend rehabilitation courses (maybe that would be a good idea in this case - a course on animal welfare, and community service with the RSPCA?), but don't have their lives ruined by people who have seen a two-minute clip on social media.

I agree that trial by SM is very worrying whatever the circumstances. And people that are threatening her are as bad as she is.

I do tend to agree with you, Doodledog, but I just think that her sacking was inevitable given the circumstances.

Dd is a primary school teacher and she is very well aware that she must be careful what she posts on Facebook or how she appears on any social media, as any behaviour deemed inappropriate by the school can result in a reprimand or sacking.

Doodledog. Why is it mob rule? I agree that the death threats and being forced out of her home are dreadful; criminal even, but her employers have taken the decision to sack her. I’m sure they gave it careful consideration before doing so.

As I stated in a previous post, many people have been caught out on social media - some have lost their jobs over historic tweets when young and immature. Nobody seems to get too bothered about that. Video of a schoolteacher kicking and punching a horse in front of children - that’s ok, she was trying to control it, no need to sack her.

Sorry but I find your argument skewed.

Well MaizieD perhaps it's the microcosm that you exist in. My daughter who has two horses, stables them quietly with horsey friends and they all keep their heads down and enjoy each other's company.
However, that isn't to say that there isn't a lot of unkindness out there. Hitting, punching, kicking, broom up the backside, perhaps you turn a blind eye, there's a lot of that out there under the guise of someone 'knowing what they're doing'!
As for the horse racing world, you'll find plenty to say that racing two year olds is fine because they're bred for it, opposite point of view to you, you're willing to condemn that....

I can't see that whatever footage may or may not be missing, could ever, in any way, shape, or form, justify her behaviour.

Doodledog

FarNorth

Doodledog did you miss that trisher was defending what she did?

I saw it as trisher pointing out that there may be more to the footage than was shown.

Personally, I doubt that there is another way to see it - it was very wrong, and she should be called to account. My point is not defending her at all - it is that we have laws for a reason, and we can't expect protection from them if people can decide for themselves what should be punishable and what the punishment should be. That is mob rule, and is not desirable at all, IMO.

People do all sorts of things that are wrong, and unless the law says that they go to jail they usually keep their job and are not hounded or sent death threats. They pay the fine, do the community service, or attend rehabilitation courses (maybe that would be a good idea in this case - a course on animal welfare, and community service with the RSPCA?), but don't have their lives ruined by people who have seen a two-minute clip on social media.

A great pity more people don’t think like this. I was only reading this morning about a young woman, suffering mentally and with anorexia, who was pilloried on social media for dropping some rubbish. Being vilified like this was the last straw, according to her Mum, she then went on to take her own life.. W hat you have said is so true. Let him without sin etc.

This is the only place I have commented on regarding this incident.

I am against trial by media, I am against death threats to anyone.

I do defend my right and any others on this thread to air their opinion. It is after all what GN is for, sharing opinions and discussions on multiple subjects.

I suppose there are little pockets of places where abuse happens?
Nothing is perfect.

Perhaps it need the right circumstances to come out?

A while back I watched on youtube, a beautifully turned out horse getting smacked around by it's owner, who was about 15.
Her mum just watched on, and never said a word!!

MissAdventure

I can't see that whatever footage may or may not be missing, could ever, in any way, shape, or form, justify her behaviour.

Which is a million miles from the point, really. There is no justification for what she did, and as far as I can see, nobody is attempting to do so.

Yes, Lincslass - that's exactly it. Public humiliation is devastating, and largely irreversible when it happens on social media. It can do untold harm to people and often results in suicide or mental health breakdowns.

The people condemning and pointing fingers then carry on with their own imperfect lives, probably never stopping to think that they are often one candid photo away from having it happen to them. Unless of course, they are so far beyond reproach that they can rest assured that it won't.

Doodledog

MissAdventure

I can't see that whatever footage may or may not be missing, could ever, in any way, shape, or form, justify her behaviour.

Which is a million miles from the point, really. There is no justification for what she did, and as far as I can see, nobody is attempting to do so.

Yes, Lincslass - that's exactly it. Public humiliation is devastating, and largely irreversible when it happens on social media. It can do untold harm to people and often results in suicide or mental health breakdowns.

The people condemning and pointing fingers then carry on with their own imperfect lives, probably never stopping to think that they are often one candid photo away from having it happen to them. Unless of course, they are so far beyond reproach that they can rest assured that it won't.

Doodledog it is the person/persons who put the footage on line who should also be held to account, along with the female carrying out the vicious act on the horse. Not those who are discussing the footage.

Instead of intervening they decided to catch it all on camera and post it

25Avalon

Dd is a primary school teacher and she is very well aware that she must be careful what she posts on Facebook or how she appears on any social media, as any behaviour deemed inappropriate by the school can result in a reprimand or sacking.

Sometimes it is safer as a teacher not to have a Facebook account at all! DH felt very strongly about this, maybe because he is an older man?

Nasty person, no need to punch an animal like that. My D who adores horses would have given the woman one back if she'd have been near her.
She's obviously not mentally sound to be in the company of children and animals and could never be trusted to work with them.

It's not the way to teach animals, especially horses as the idea is to keep them calm because of the damage they can do when spooked.

Well, I didnt think I was a million miles away from the point Doodle.
Someone did say that there was probably footage removed, and it was wrong talk as if we know the whole story.

I'm having trouble imagining what might change my mind.

Perhaps if she gave the horse a nice hug afterwards?

My point being it doesnt matter what came before or after, the same as in any case of violence.

I did wonder if this is the type of behaviour that this woman considers appropriate in public, just what would she do behind closed doors? Someone in a position if authority should be called to account so I am not surprised that she was sacked. I would have thought that even the RSPCA would eventually prosecute.

The correct decision was made from what I’ve seen.

Josieann

25Avalon

Dd is a primary school teacher and she is very well aware that she must be careful what she posts on Facebook or how she appears on any social media, as any behaviour deemed inappropriate by the school can result in a reprimand or sacking.

Sometimes it is safer as a teacher not to have a Facebook account at all! DH felt very strongly about this, maybe because he is an older man?

Our younger daughter, a teacher full time aged 41y, no longer has a FB account either. She became disillusioned with it years ago and never missed it.

*Doodledog it is the person/persons who put the footage on line who should also be held to account, along with the female carrying out the vicious act on the horse. Not those who are discussing the footage.

Instead of intervening they decided to catch it all on camera and post it*

That's a good point. The person putting it out there bears responsibility too. I don't think that this absolves the buyers for blood, though. Also, there are times when intervention would be pointless and/or dangerous. The woman who filmed the murder of George Floyd, for instance was responsible for bringing his killer to justice, as her evidence was shown in a court of law and was incontrovertible. Apparently she blames herself for not intervening, but there would have been absolutely nothing she could have done.

25Avalon The woman didn't post this on her own account (I assume). Someone will have done it believing that they have the right to bring the woman down, and they have succeeded.

I think she has shown herself as someone who needs to have been taken down, for her own sake, as well as everyone else's (and animals)

I’ve loaded and unloaded many horses and ponies in my time and if one of them got loose, wandered off and then stood still to be caught, I’d be so relieved it hadn’t taken off and caused an accident I would reward it rather than punish it.

Physical violence towards an animal gets you absolutely nowhere. She was lucky it loaded willingly the second time.

My point being it doesnt matter what came before or after, the same as in any case of violence.
Agreed. But mine is that the penalty is for the law to decide, not the mob.

I think she has shown herself as someone who needs to have been taken down, for her own sake, as well as everyone else's (and animals)
I understand your point of view, but again, with all due respect, you are not the judge and jury here - we have laws and statutory penalties for a reason.

A different story, to illustrate what I mean. Last summer there was a post on local Facebook about a dog that had been seen in a car on a hot day. There was a photo of the car, which belonged to a local resident and was recognised. Cue dozens of posts about how she shouldn't be allowed to keep pets, how the poster would lock her in a car for hours in high temperatures, and how the RSPCA had been informed and should prosecute. There were even posts saying that the photographer should have smashed the car window, and that anyone seeing the car should smash it anyway, to teach her a lesson.

The woman was named and shamed, and more personal abuse followed. She worked in the tax office, so there were nasty comments about that, too. Her children were bullied at school for having a 'dog abusing mother'.

She had parked the car for a couple of minutes while she went to collect a takeaway from a restaurant 2 minutes' walk from the carpark, and the dog was there because they were returning from a beach walk. The photographer had no idea how long the dog had been alone in the car, and nor had the posters, but the level of nastiness had to be seen to be believed, and anyone trying to post in mitigation was told that they must hate animals and should be ashamed of themselves.

Depressing.