Ghislaine Maxwell Found Guilty

MissA you seem to have formed the opinion that anyone the girls in my example had sex with was a dirty old man. I have said nothing about any of the men (or boys as one might describe many) in question but those I know of weren’t dirty old men. I don’t have an exhaustive list of the ages of their conquests because as you might imagine the girls were not part of my friendship group.

Doodledog you have decided Andrew is guilty, I am certainly not defending him but all we know are the allegations, we know Epstein was guilty.

We know Bill Clinton and Trump went to Epstein’s island, are they guilty ?

Germanshepherdsmum

MissA you seem to have formed the opinion that anyone the girls in my example had sex with was a dirty old man. I have said nothing about any of the men (or boys as one might describe many) in question but those I know of weren’t dirty old men. I don’t have an exhaustive list of the ages of their conquests because as you might imagine the girls were not part of my friendship group.

That's a polite version of my opinion, frankly.
I have always held men who behave that way in low regard.

Anniebach

Doodledog you have decided Andrew is guilty, I am certainly not defending him but all we know are the allegations, we know Epstein was guilty.

We know Bill Clinton and Trump went to Epstein’s island, are they guilty ?

Presumably they all went for a bit of snorkelling and sunbathing as one does in the Caribbean.

Am sure your right Calistemon no one is taking them to court for justice and a cheque.

If we need to use correct terminology, hebephilia is still a criminal offence and children under 16 cannot consent.

This is taken from a website aimed at stopping people committing crimes in the first place (I haven't linked as i don't want to upset anyone)

The term ‘paedophilia’ should not be used to describe young people under the age of 16 who have a sexual preference for younger children. ICD-10 criteria stipulate that the person with the disorder is at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child or children who are the focus of their sexual preference.

Hebephilia and ephebophilia

Hebephilia is the term used to describe a preferential sexual interest in pubescent (i.e. early adolescent) individuals, rather than adult partners. As with paedophilia, it is not a term that would be applied to under-16s. A related term is ephebophilia, used to describe a preferential sexual interest in adolescent individuals (usually mid-late teens).

Hebephilia and ephebophilia are not formally defined as specific clinical disorders, but if the focus of the sexual preference leads to problematic behaviour and/or emotional distress, and if these problems are persistent (more than 6 months), they would likely meet ICD-10 criteria for disorders of sexual preference. This would need to be assessed by a professional.

Anniebach

Doodledog you have decided Andrew is guilty, I am certainly not defending him but all we know are the allegations, we know Epstein was guilty.

We know Bill Clinton and Trump went to Epstein’s island, are they guilty ?

No, I haven't. I said that my comment on men being responsible for not having sex with children applied to the likes of them, as opposed to boys who are slightly older than the girls involved. They are the ones in the frame, but I have not 'decided' anything, and didn't imply otherwise.

I can't believe some of the comments on here about children who have been preyed on by men.

I am genuinely astounded that some posters on here are still trying to blame the victims - and no matter how you try to excuse it, the comments which have been made do amount to victim shaming. The fact of the matter is that the ones in the wrong here are the abusers - NOT the victims. If you are below the age of consent, it literally means that you legally unable to consent to sexual activity. That's it, in a nutshell, black and white, How much clearer can it be?

I can't believe some of the comments on here about children who have been preyed on by men.

I can. It's steeped in misogyny

the girls' continuing participation shows them to have been willing participants
No, no, no! Women / wives in abusive marriages often do not leave - for all sorts of reasons (fear, shame, rock bottom self esteem) - but staying in an abusive situation for those reasons is not the same as being ‘willing’

GSM what you seem to be recounting as truth is the words of either the 15 year old girls or of the men they went with. Here's a surprise for you, both of those groups could be lying or exaggerating. Boys lie about what they have done, girls pretend they wanted to do it. Just because teenagers say it happened doesn't mean it did or that it happened in the way they tell you. Maybe years later a girl will speak out and say it was rape.
In any case the law says 16. Do you want to change that?

the girls' continuing participation shows them to have been willing participants
No, no, no! Women / wives in abusive marriages often do not leave - for all sorts of reasons (fear, shame, rock bottom self esteem) - but staying in an abusive situation for those reasons is not the same as being ‘willing’

Doesn't this also apply to Ghislaine Maxwell herself? The favourite child of a father who both favoured her and was ruthless in beating all his children with a belt if they failed to reach his expectations. She was programmed to charm and flatter the man, who could also physically abuse her, and clearly became adept at doing so.

The space between her father's death, that she has always insisted was murder, not accident or suicide as everyone, including all her familyhave accepted to the time of her falling under Philip Epstein's spell. Equally monstrous, and I suspect equally capable of emotional abuse was very brief. She was programmed to serve monsters and do everything they wanted.

No, none of this is an excuse for what she did, but most of us are quick to plea mitigation for poor women caught up in this kind of thing. The existence of money should not stop us pleaing mitigation for rich women also caught in this trap.

none of this is an excuse for what she did

She has committed a crime, regardless of mitigating circumstances, regardless of her upbringing.

I'm convinced everyone who commits a crime has their reasons, their issues, their deeply ingrained behaviours.
She has committed a crime and should be punished.

Presumably the mitigating circumstances will be taken into account.

The ones who havent committed any crime have somehow ended up being castigated here.

MOnica thank you , I don’t feel isolated on this thread now,

Much as we all want to see justice for Prince Andrew (whatever that might be) I find it very concerning because of the effect this may have on the Queen. If her favourite son gets found guilty (of something) then it would cause her huge distress and who knows where that will lead.
Before I get hauled over the coals, I fully realise that justice must be served. I am just concerned for the Queen.

Wherever there is a crime, it has a huge impact on families of the perpetrator.
What to do, though?
I doubt Andrew will face up or admit to anything though.

Chestnut it must be a nightmare for the Queen . I have been told the son she and Phillip were closest to is Edward, I can’t say who told me but I trust the person who told me.

Anniebach I think it is generally believed that Andrew is her favourite. I've heard it many times, never Edward mentioned.

It has been said so many times Chestnut by the media.

trisher

GSM what you seem to be recounting as truth is the words of either the 15 year old girls or of the men they went with. Here's a surprise for you, both of those groups could be lying or exaggerating. Boys lie about what they have done, girls pretend they wanted to do it. Just because teenagers say it happened doesn't mean it did or that it happened in the way they tell you. Maybe years later a girl will speak out and say it was rape.
In any case the law says 16. Do you want to change that?

Give me some credit trisher. What they boasted of was witnessed and well known within the village. They were referred to as a couple of little scrubbers and indeed they were.

What kind of men do you know GSM. All the men I know would not have sex with 15 year olds. Were there lots of really creepy men where you lived.

Double standards abound, it seems, chillingly.

MissAdventure

Double standards abound, it seems, chillingly.

Exactly. I'm saddened - although not entire surprised - by some of the comments I've read on this thread. No wonder more women don't report such crimes.

Maybe not, but if GSM comments are anything to go by, there were lots of judgemental people living there. Your description of allegedly promiscuous children as "little scrubbers" is truly disgusting. Are you sure you aren't a middle aged man? Your comments would indicate such.