Ghislaine Maxwell Found Guilty

Thanks for clarifying Anniebach because I was genuinely confused. It's hard to judge such a complex set of events and with only news reports to go on.

Jillyjosie you are mistaken, I have never said I believe the girls who have given evidence are lying.

I think Andrew is pompous and not the brightest coin in the mint.

I don’t trust Giuffrie, I have doubts she was a victim .

JaneJudge I always wonder why some rush in to insist that women abuse too where it doesn't seem appropriate or need saying. Perhaps some personal point?

Anniebach most of your posts seem intended to denigrate Giuffre, arbitrate for Andrew and insinuate that the girls are lying or that evidence is being deliberately hidden?? I'm afraid that your last post has mystified me completely!

Galaxy

They have been deleted for exactly that reason I guess chestnut. I did think they would be. GN is an offshoot of MN a parenting website, they tend to be quite picky about stuff like excusing adults who have sex with children. And they take a particular stand on any victim blaming whatever the age.

I think the moderators are the same people who moderate MN now and yes, I expect they take a very dim view of posters who blame the trafficked and groomed victims of powerful, wealthy men.

Quite rightly.

They are all innocent or Giuffrie didn’t keep photographs of them or ? ? ? ?

It’s good that she has been convicted. I’m aware of all the posts about PA, but where is the list of men from Maxwell’s little black book who enjoyed these trafficked girls? Are they being prosecuted as we speak?

They were a few pages ago I remembered them because I knew as soon as I saw them that if GNHQ saw them they would go. I was trawling back through the pages to use them as examples of victim blaming and saw they had been deleted. I cant quote them and to be honest dont want to as my quoting them would be deleted as well.

Galaxy

They have been deleted for exactly that reason I guess chestnut. I did think they would be. GN is an offshoot of MN a parenting website, they tend to be quite picky about stuff like excusing adults who have sex with children. And they take a particular stand on any victim blaming whatever the age.

Well I wasn't sure which posts had made people so angry, so if they've been deleted then that's the end of it. Maybe I haven't read them all, it's a long thread.

I'm not exactly sure why anyone has to post about females not always being the victims on a thread about a female who has been found guilty for procuring underage girls/children for prostitution. The irony is strong on this one

Galaxy

I meant to say a while ago when VS talked about offense that it wouldnt be Violets or anyone elses offense that was the issue but rather the stance of the website you are on that mattered. (Sorry violet I am not making light of your feelings at all I was just pointing out that the websites policy on this has always been very very clear)

None taken, I'm glad to hear they have been deleted

I meant to say a while ago when VS talked about offense that it wouldnt be Violets or anyone elses offense that was the issue but rather the stance of the website you are on that mattered. (Sorry violet I am not making light of your feelings at all I was just pointing out that the websites policy on this has always been very very clear)

They have been deleted for exactly that reason I guess chestnut. I did think they would be. GN is an offshoot of MN a parenting website, they tend to be quite picky about stuff like excusing adults who have sex with children. And they take a particular stand on any victim blaming whatever the age.

Chestnut I hope this doesn't sound rude but, I've no desire to read it all again so I can highlight what you have missed. You are welcome to read back through again

VioletSky

I think perhaps there is not enough understanding of what victim blaming is and the replies explaining need to be read again.

It is definitely happening on this thread

Can you state a post where anyone has blamed a victim i.e. a young teen who has been trapped by Epstein and Maxwell or abused in any other way? People have simply pointed out that females are not always victims which some posters seem to think they are. Someone even said that posters on this thread wouldn't give a victim a fair trial which is speculative nonsense.

yes, it's how abuse works

The girls enticed by Ghislaine Maxwell were enticed by offers of college fees being paid, job opportunities, introduction to film producers. Most of these girls were young, poor, did not come from loving secure families, they could not see these enticements for being as worthless as they were, they submitted because they saw on offer an opportunity of escape to a better life.

The girls in Rotheram were, beaten, threatened, drugged.

One group used carrots, the other offered sticks, but enticed they all were and once caught, found they were trapped.

lavendermine

Victim blaming = the victim is being blamed for the crime and not the perpetrator: pretty simple to understand I would have thought.

You’d think.
Apparently not.

Girls being blamed for returning to bad situations is just one way it’s being done

Victim blaming = the victim is being blamed for the crime and not the perpetrator: pretty simple to understand I would have thought.

I think perhaps there is not enough understanding of what victim blaming is and the replies explaining need to be read again.

It is definitely happening on this thread

Definite victim blaming be some on this thread. It’s also daft to assume that those of us who recognise a 14 year old seduced into child sexual exploitation is indeed a victim, also believe women are always victims.

Chestnut

I don't see anyone here 'victim blaming' just pointing out that women are not always victims. I know of one woman who likes to portray herself as a victim but certainly is not. She's a sociopath and compulsive liar, and there is absolutely no doubt that the men she has been involved with are the victims. Some posters seem to think that women are always the 'victims' of men, I can only wonder what makes them think like that. They should realise there are many different types of people in the world and not all females are innocent victims. Obviously older men abusing young girls is a different matter. And prostitutes is another matter again. Why are posters suggesting that other posters think a prostitute cannot be raped? Some real nonsense being assumed here and this thread has gone completely bonkers.

No-one is 'assuming' anything of the sort. And there has most definitely been victim blaming going on on here. No-one is remotely suggesting that women are always the victims - it would be naive in the extreme to suggest otherwise.

MOnica, I don't believe I made the assumption in my post that the names appearing in Epstein's books indicated these men were having sex with girls, underage or otherwise, at his houses.

However, his financial contacts and dealings should be of great interest.

Obviously older men abusing young girls is a different matter.

That is the subject matter here.
Not just men - women as abusers too as in the case we're discussing.

True MOnica with the exception of Andrew I think it will all
go quiet now.

Anniebach Knowing and socialising with Geoffrey Epsten, does not mean automatically mean that you had sex with underage girls. A man like Epstein has a very large contact list of men and women, many business contacts, would never have been invited to any of his party houses and the women there did not just include under age girls. Many were over the age of consent.

You can only prosecute where you have evidence that a crime took place.

easybee I understood that it was Ghislaine maxwell seeking the plea bargain and he authorities uninterested because they have all the information they need fro Epstein's papers.

As I have said above, Epstein would have had a huge contact list, the majority of whom never socialised with him outside business. You cannot assume every man who ever had any contact with Epstein went to his parties and had sex with underage girls.