Ghislaine Maxwell Found Guilty

kjmpde

my views will be controversial but i think some of the women bringing the claims were not so vulnerable as they claim. they enjoyed the lifestyle that mixing with Epstein and his associates gave them. i still think that some of them would not have brought a claim if it was not for money - telling their story for instance? how else can they pay for the legal fees?

That has been my view from the outset, unpopular though it is. tickingbird points to the difference between the way these girls were treated and those in the Rotherham etc cases which IMO were very different. PA's lawyers have accused Virginia Guiffre of seeking another payday, having already had money from Epstein's estate, and I agree.

GillT57 - totally agree with you. Some of the views which have been expressed in relation to this - not necessarily on this particular thread - have been reprehensible to say the least. I recall there was a lot of victim blaming - or victim shaming - going on.

GillT57

Violetsky, when the Prince Andrew case started coming to light, there were some on GN (not posting on this thread I notice) who suggested that some of the underage girls should be thrilled to be raped by sleep with a prince. Never underestimate the ability of some, even parents of girls, to blame the victims, accuse them of being motivated by money or fame

That is so awful

I also presumed the comment by Annibach re wealthy abused victims was meant to be ironic/sarcastic

Blondiescot

GillT57 - totally agree with you. Some of the views which have been expressed in relation to this - not necessarily on this particular thread - have been reprehensible to say the least. I recall there was a lot of victim blaming - or victim shaming - going on.

We often don't know who posters are - they could be representatives of some of the men involved.

Atqui

I also presumed the comment by Annibach re wealthy abused victims was meant to be ironic/sarcastic

Yes, it seemed obvious it was irony.

Whatever the traumas of her own upbringing, she must take the punishment for her crimes.

Prisons are heaving with people who have had traumas in their past, but they are still being made to serve the sentences for the crimes they committed. Most of the prison population in the UK are from disturbed backgrounds (drug use, childhood abuse etc.) and there is a strong case to be made for them to receive the help they need in prison to lead more settled law-abiding lives - I am absolutely sure that this only happens in a tiny minority of cases.

Sad thought her upbringing probably was, she must go to prison and serve her sentence.

kjmpde, Germanshepherdsmum
I agree with some of what you say. There does not appear to have been any evidence of coercion, threats or bullying, just enticement to participate in what appeared to be an exotic lifestyle. I don't dispute it was criminal to expose fourteen year old girls to this.
What I genuinely do not understand. in this and other cases, was for example, a girl saying she froze with fear when Epstein pulled down her pants. Horrible. Why then did she go back, again and again?
I thought initially the girls were trapped in a sort of Playboy Mansion on an island, semi-captive, like girls who have been trafficked and are unable to leave, but these girls were living at home and called in for 'work.' So it was a conscious decision to go. Each time. Why?
Were they threatened?

Coersive control is about so much more than being threatened.

I know the sentencing in the US is ridiculous but the fact that she could get a sentence in the region of 60 yrs doesn’t sit well with me. Different country but when the likes of little Arthur’s murderers are only receiving less than half of that it sickens me. Some perspective needed I think.

I agree eazybee. Some of it just doesn't make sense to me.

A lit of young people are lured into what seems like a promising situation. That does not mean that as adults they would have made those decisions.

Especially when those were grown adults around them telling them it was no big deal, probably plying them with alcohol or other substances, keeping them emotionally unbalanced and unaware of the true damage that was happening.

Laying any blame at their feet is unthinkable wrong. They were used and abused. They were innocent and corrupted by disgusting adults who should have known better.

Those adults knowingly broke the law and should be punished to full extent.

Their victims have been punished too and do not need anyone's judgement.

Stockholm Syndrome didn’t only happen to Patty Hurst, it’s seen in women abused by husbands, in children who defend their abusive parents or carers.
Vulnerable adolescent girls seduced into a lifestyle where promiscuous sex was central. Maxwell and Epstein had friendships with presidents, movie stars, royalty. A neglected 14 year old with very limited life experience could be sucked in, begin to see it as normal. That in no way diminishes the trauma, the ptsd, depression, difficulty making stable relationships and so on they experienced.

eazybee

*kjmpde, Germanshepherdsmum*
I agree with some of what you say. There does not appear to have been any evidence of coercion, threats or bullying, just enticement to participate in what appeared to be an exotic lifestyle. I don't dispute it was criminal to expose fourteen year old girls to this.
What I genuinely do not understand. in this and other cases, was for example, a girl saying she froze with fear when Epstein pulled down her pants. Horrible. Why then did she go back, again and again?
I thought initially the girls were trapped in a sort of Playboy Mansion on an island, semi-captive, like girls who have been trafficked and are unable to leave, but these girls were living at home and called in for 'work.' So it was a conscious decision to go. Each time. Why?
Were they threatened?

How lucky you ladies are not to have any contact with someone who has been abused.

MissAdventure

Coersive control is about so much more than being threatened.

A fact which seems to be lost on so many on this thread. And I also agree with the last comments made by Iam64, VioletSky and Granniesunite. As I said, there really is no place for victim blaming on here.

This lady has had contact with someone abused

????Anniebach.

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree eazybee. Some of it just doesn't make sense to me.

GSM and Easybee…..Some of it doesn’t make sense to me either.

Virginia Giuffre’s father said he use to drop her off at Epstein’s
house, he didn’t know what was happening in there but she was a very good actress

Nightsky2

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree eazybee. Some of it just doesn't make sense to me.

GSM and Easybee…..Some of it doesn’t make sense to me either.

It may not make sense because few of us have lived the kind of life many of those girls did. Many of them came from backgrounds of abuse or neglect - those like Epstein/Maxwell are very good at picking out victims who are vulnerable for those very reasons. To those girls, a chance to be part of what would seem like a glamorous, enticing lifestyle would be hard to resist - and once there, who knows what coercive control or threats were put into place to keep them returning time and time again? A vulnerable teenage girl would be in no position to realise just what she was getting herself into - and as in common in such situation, it can take years, sometime many years, before victims of such crime actually find it within themselves to come forward and speak up.

Anniebach

Virginia Giuffre’s father said he use to drop her off at Epstein’s
house, he didn’t know what was happening in there but she was a very good actress

I know we have different views on child sexual exploitation Annie but, what does this post mean?

Are all teenage girls vulnerable ? I do mean all teenage girls not
only those involved in this trial

In law yes. It's why we have laws to protect children.

Anniebach
Virginia Giuffre’s father said he use to drop her off at Epstein’s
house, he didn’t know what was happening in there but she was a very good actress

I know we have different views on child sexual exploitation Annie but, what does this post mean?

Sorry Iam I wasn’t very clear. He gave a tv interview, asked
questions and gave replies.

He said he regretted taking his daughter to Trumps hotel to look for a job.

He said he didn’t know what was really happening in Epstein’s
house, she didn’t show any upset when he use to drop her off there for work, she was a very good actress.

This was his explanation for not knowing anything about his daughter being abused by Epstein.

Blondiescot

MissAdventure

Coersive control is about so much more than being threatened.

A fact which seems to be lost on so many on this thread. And I also agree with the last comments made by Iam64, VioletSky and Granniesunite. As I said, there really is no place for victim blaming on here.

? I agree