When is mis-speaking actually lying to deceive?

I have said ( many times!) on GN that he wasn’t my choice for leader, never mind the PM.He is as he is, as they say and I had strong doubts that he would be a good PM.There was no choice when it came to the GE, him or Corbyn.
Having said that, I don’t think he has done a bad job where Covid is concerned and I really don’t care about his many marriages/ affairs or how much a Tory donor spends on refurbishing his flat.
He also got things moving with Brexit, therefore honouring his promise before the election.I think he has a chaotic mind that flits about from one thing to another and he doesn’t do details, which is why PMQ’s isn’t his forte.
Am sure there will be somebody else leading the party before the next GE.
On the other hand I think the nit picking about him gets a bit too ridiculous at times on social media.
Up to now....he has been a vote winner and is well liked by the general public and he needs to know that’s wearing thin ( the goodwill). There’s no doubt he is an eccentric character, and see his main fault is in wanting/ needing to be liked.You can’t be a strong leader that way.He has a good chancellor in Sunak but prefers to be a loner on decisions ( a mistake, as T May was just the same.)
I see him as being a good PM in fits and starts but overall too odd a character to remain for more than one term.

What I am finding extraordinary, lemon is that you are defending Johnson by describing traits in him that nobody in their right minds would consider to be appropriate for a holder of high office in government.

Cvd....I really think you credit Johnson with too much? as in being deliberate....much more likely that he didn’t read the figures properly as he really is forgetful and chaotic, even his friends say that ruefully!

It would be a low bar WW if anyone had actually said that.
They haven’t.
I wrote ‘the evidence is that he gets things wrong fairly regularly, annoying yes, a crime, no.
Getting muddled....getting things wrong.
Just in the interest of truth, as there is so much twisting of words sometimes on GN.

lemongrove

Yes Maizie ? very kind and considerate of you to ‘the hard of hearing’
He said the wrong thing about the warm homes, but that doesn’t make it done on purpose ( a lie) far more likely with Johnson in that he muddled the figures up.
The evidence is that he gets things wrong fairly regularly.
Annoying yes, a crime, no.

? Johnson lives in a permanent muddle. He must be so confused?

To suggest that the constant lies are merely annoying sets a very low bar indeed.

Lemongrove I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?

Doesn’t follow. I didn’t for example .

And aren’t you being personal to Gill there ?

if you qualify and were born before 1941 and live alone you get £300 after 1941 its £200

____________________

Born between 27 September 1941 and 26 September 1955Born on or before 26 September 1941
You qualify and live alone (or none of the people you live with qualify)£200£300
You qualify and live with someone under 80 who also qualifies£100£200
You qualify and live with someone 80 or over who also qualifies£100£150
You qualify, live in a care home and do not get certain benefits

As the person who started this thread, I'm fascinated at the dispute over the Warm House Discount mistake/deception and do thank those who have confirmed the PM repeated his inaccuracy. On the question of facts such as that discount and inequality/poverty movement, he is provided with those figures regularly and beforePMQ where they are useful. He is not chaotic/forgetful, he is deliberate. For me the more important matter was over inflation which he DID lie about today. When Rayner called him out at the end of the session, she quoted the Sky interview when he had stated people's fears about inflation increases were unfounded. Correcting the ministerial record is normal practice when someone makes a 'mistake'. In response to Rayner's challenge, Johnson stood up and moved to leave the Chamber, without reply, until stopped by the Speaker. Fact! Deception or mistake - he had his chance.

Sorry this has nothing to with the thread but was it Michael Fabricant who was all dressed up in his new hat and jumper?

I didn't see that ( thankfully), Jane. He is the one with 'the hair' I think? Looks Like the lovechild of Harry Enfield and Boris Johnson (read on Twitter)

Are they so completely out of touch that they think that nearly £600 a month is paid out to everyone who needs it in the winter? Really?

Very possibly!

I doubt if many of them even know the value of various benefits.

Wasn't £140 about the amount paid per head for the people at Liz Truss's lunch? It's no wonder that some people have no idea what £140 means to the poorest. Let's face it - the cost of a lunch isn't that much, unless it's being paid as a free school meal.

lemongrove

Of course there are more parties Gill but only two that matter or who have any chance of winning.I would have thought that anyone who hated the thought of Johnson winning last time would have voted Labour.
A wasted vote otherwise and helped the Conservatives to power.

please don't try to tell me how it works, I am well aware of the inequalities of the FPTP system, and of living in a safe Tory seat. Sadly, this seat is such a safe one that the alternatives such as LibDems and Labour don't field decent candidates. It is most frustrating and makes me feel unemancipated as a voter. Still doesn't mean I voted for Corbyn though!

Maybe not realising £600 is a lot of money was another sign as to how detached they are from most people's reality

Sorry this has nothing to with the thread but was it Micheal Fabricant who was all dressed up in his new hat and jumper?

But surely, surely, as he was saying it, he must have thought that £140 per week was wrong? Why didn't the Chancellor or one of the other band on the front bench lean over and correct him? Are they so completely out of touch that they think that nearly £600 a month is paid out to everyone who needs it in the winter? Really? The best bit of yesterday's PMQs was watching that silly old fart Tory backbencher go apoplectic as he realised that trade deals with India would involve thousands of visas being handed out like confetti, it was entertaining watching him squirming, trying not to let his blatant racism burst out . 'Sir' Desmond Swayne I think it was.

Of course there are more parties Gill but only two that matter or who have any chance of winning.I would have thought that anyone who hated the thought of Johnson winning last time would have voted Labour.
A wasted vote otherwise and helped the Conservatives to power.

So as I said above...

you can't tell when he's lying or telling the truth, and neither can he.

Yes Maizie ? very kind and considerate of you to ‘the hard of hearing’
He said the wrong thing about the warm homes, but that doesn’t make it done on purpose ( a lie) far more likely with Johnson in that he muddled the figures up.
The evidence is that he gets things wrong fairly regularly.
Annoying yes, a crime, no.

lemongrove

The same ‘personal attack’ that you wrote to me Gill
Since you have always appeared to be a Labour voter I thought you would have voted for him at the last GE, after all there were really only two choices at the time.
Therefore we all had to pick a side.

Yes well, it just shows that you shouldn't make assumptions doesn't it. I have never indicated that I am a Corbyn supporter, I have just voiced my frustration with the inadequate liar that some people have foisted upon the country in their desperate desire for Brexit. My conscience is clear in that regard, but surely you know that there are more than just two political parties in an election, even if the current FPTP system makes it possible only for Conservatives and Labour to win?

Come on lemon, we've posted Johnson's actual words as recorded by Hansard. Anything to say about it?

It amazes me how people can continue to defend the indefensible, even when presented with the evidence.

The same ‘personal attack’ that you wrote to me Gill
Since you have always appeared to be a Labour voter I thought you would have voted for him at the last GE, after all there were really only two choices at the time.
Therefore we all had to pick a side.

I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?. Rather a personal attack there lemon? No, I did not support Corbyn as you well know, what a silly comment

I don’t get any winter payment as ‘they say’ I have the same average temperatures as the French Dom-Toms in Paris, not the one degree last night.

paddyann54

pensioners get £300 winter fuel payment ....? Anyone on here who does? £200 per household here !

Is Johnson's dad over 80? Perhaps he's just remembering what his dad gets...

pensioners get £300 winter fuel payment ....? Anyone on here who does? £200 per household here !

Snap! It wasn't difficult to verify, was it mokryna?