Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

Kali2

Indeed WWmk2- but we are divided. The UK made sure of that.

EU and NATO are not the same thing.

See my post above.

Yes you're right, I should have said most EU countries are NATO members, six are not. Main players however are but their reliance on Russia makes them virtually impotent particularly Germany.

Jaberwok

Yes you're right, I should have said most EU countries are NATO members, six are not. Main players however are but their reliance on Russia makes them virtually impotent particularly Germany.

I think it is overegging the pudding to say that Germany is virtually impotent.

Germany does have choices and it has been offered help in these choices.

Callistemon21

What worries me more, I think, is that the EU has been a party to much of this (no pun intended) but is now ignoring the threat apart from warning Russia.

British troops and anti-tank weapons have been sent to Ukraine, training their troops.

We only hear what the media want us to hear ie partygate, Cummingsville.

Surprised you think the EU is ignoring the threat. This is not the impression we are getting in Denmark. The German Foreign Minister has been in Russia for talks with the Russian Government, the EU Parliament is holding meetings solely to discuss steps and Macron has made it clear he is concerned too.

Nato has sent two Dutch warships to the Baltic, Denmark one of her own frigates and Sweden is increasing her defence of Gotland.

I don't know how any of this contitues ignoring a situation.

grandtanteJE65

Callistemon21

What worries me more, I think, is that the EU has been a party to much of this (no pun intended) but is now ignoring the threat apart from warning Russia.

British troops and anti-tank weapons have been sent to Ukraine, training their troops.

We only hear what the media want us to hear ie partygate, Cummingsville.

Surprised you think the EU is ignoring the threat. This is not the impression we are getting in Denmark. The German Foreign Minister has been in Russia for talks with the Russian Government, the EU Parliament is holding meetings solely to discuss steps and Macron has made it clear he is concerned too.

Nato has sent two Dutch warships to the Baltic, Denmark one of her own frigates and Sweden is increasing her defence of Gotland.

I don't know how any of this contitues ignoring a situation.

Yes you are right. France and Spain are very vocal as well.

This is what we absolutely mustn’t do and play Putins game.

He wants division in order to weaken the bond between the EU and others and succeed in his end game.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202201/medium-290361-815fc31d-23ff-43b8-b068-23006775bd9a.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202201/medium-917548-c6e26bec-afaf-498d-b949-c5871f0e678d.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202201/medium-34745-b2b8f2b1-6f87-4533-b4c0-af75bcca3571.jpeg

Telegraph article dated 21/01/22 by leader of the opposition

Final one.

Callistemon21

Kali2

Indeed WWmk2- but we are divided. The UK made sure of that.

EU and NATO are not the same thing.

See my post above.

Please, I am fully aware of this. Did you read the articles I posted? The UKs position with relation to both of the above was changed due to Brexit- and has never been properly re-established.

We must not play Putin's 'game' - yes, he was behind Brexit to achieve maximum division (divide and rule)- and yet. Due to reliance on oil for so many countries on Russia, at a time when prices are soaring and putting individuals and businesses, and the economy of many countries, in serious difficulties, it is much easier to say than to do.

But mainly, the EU and others are very conscious of the failability of the MAD concept in the current situation, combined with other serious financial and economic factors due partly to Covid.

Whatever you think, it is a VERY serious situation- and going in all guns blazing is VERY dangerous. Just don't know what the answer is, for sure.

For once I find myself in total agreement with Mr. Starmer.

GrannyGravy13

For once I find myself in total agreement with Mr. Starmer.

? I do think tackling the illicit money is a good and relatively easy start.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

For once I find myself in total agreement with Mr. Starmer.

? I do think tackling the illicit money is a good and relatively easy start.

An office of highly qualified forensic accounts would be a good starting point.

*accounts should be accountants

“and that the UK is not in a firm and solid relationship with the rest of Europe, ^even within NATO^”. Where is your evidence for the last part of that statement please?

Our position in NATO was not changed by Brexit, how could it be? they are two totally different arrangements. You don't have to be in the EU to be a member of NATO.

This is not what I said. Did you take the time to read the links I posted. The UK was part of NATO as a member of the European Community- it is no longer. Blaire also went to war without the approval of the rest of Europe. Of course the two are separate- but with very strong links, which have changed very significantly since Brexit.

.

Kali2

This is not what I said. Did you take the time to read the links I posted. The UK was part of NATO as a member of the European Community- it is no longer. Blaire also went to war without the approval of the rest of Europe. Of course the two are separate- but with very strong links, which have changed very significantly since Brexit.

The U.K. was a founder member of NATO, long before the U.K. joined the EEC which later became the EU. Leaving the EU has nothing to do with being in NATO.

The U.K is one of only a handful of Countries to meet its NATO contribution to its Defence budget

The UK was part of NATO as a member of the European Community- it is no longer. ?‍♀️Dear God, is it just me? Where are you getting your information from?

What's the PM doing this weekend? According to the Times, getting together top lieutenants to shore up his leadership.

It's ok, they've got a spreadsheet

Someone’s really lost the plot here, and it ain’t me. ?
Perhaps the British Military expert and font of all knowledge appertaining to the uk could explain when we left NATO

MerylStreep, you have made me chuckle! Our relationship with NATO hasn't changed one iota since leaving the EU. Each country joined independently and has remained so including us, nothing to do with EU membership or lack of it. [ confused]

Jaberwok
Your not confused. I think someone’s been breathing too much rarefied air.