Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think?

There are millions of people in poverty heating or eating, cut to universal credit uplift, food banks proliferating. No one is speaking for these people. '

'Fleecing people' ?by having fair taxes for higher earners above £80,000 a year I think? Is right and the proper thing to do.

trisher is not bitter she talks a lot of sense

Starmer is no different to Tories a pale imitation

Gone back on pledges

Doesn't want to unite the party only getting rid of left members who support Palestinians against Isreal's apartheid state.
Why doesn't Starmer is he in the pay of the Isreal Lobby

Doesn't want to renationalise

I think Starmer would be worse than Tories

Don’t be ridiculous. The idea a labour govt could be worse than the tories Is daft

Starmer doesn’t deny being a socialist

There’s no reasoning with some people Iam64. What beats me is why they stay in the Labour Party, because Starmer or no Starmer, this is the only way forward.

How can it be wrong to think that someone who has lied, is controlling, has punished people for things they said 8 years ago, is excluding people because of their views, has consistently acted undemocratically, is willing to chuck some people under a bus and reward others for bad behaviour would run a worse government than the Tories. Even the Tories allow some disagreement in their party.
You also have to ask who is pulling Starmer's strings. I wouldn't be surprised if he is negogiating selling the party to anyone willing to fund him.

As I said, there’s no reasoning with some people.

For some it’s Corbyn forever

Not supporting Starmer is not "Corbyn forever". It's simply realising that there was a good product there which many people supported and the fact that the media made the CEO toxic is no reason to ditch the product. Starmer made promises he hasn't kept. How can that be justified?
Let's stop harking back to Corbyn (which seems to be the only real comment about the awful things happening in theLabour party just now). How can Starmer be the honouurable person some of you imagine when he has behaved so badly? By all means support him but do so by eother explaining or denying the allegations I have made. Not by saying there's no reasoning or by resurrecting someone irrelevant.
Starmer is a hypocrite, a liar and wants to control people. Explain that away.

The media does it’s best to make every Labour leader toxic. Corbyn aided and abetted that by his past and present behaviour. In addition, his habit of snapping at journalists did nothing to help the party.

I don’t agree that Starmer us a hypocritical, controlling liar so feel no need to explain that away.

So did he not promise to "unite" the party? I've yet to see any definition of unite which means just getting rid of one lot of people.
Isn't it controlling to decide what people are allowed to think or say?
Even Tony Blair didn't try to rid the LP of its left wing supporters and some of those were far to the left of today's people

No. I will never vote labour again after the Tony Blair years. People have very short memories. All parties will make promises that they have no intention of keeping, just to get votes. Keir Starmer reminds me of those hecklers on the Muppet show, whatever Boris does, he will criticise. I think they should all grow up and stop picking at the same old sores, we are all very tired of it now. Wouldn't it be nice if there was some sort of unity and patriotism for the good of the people and for the country and forget all of these personal vendettas.

trisher

So did he not promise to "unite" the party? I've yet to see any definition of unite which means just getting rid of one lot of people.
Isn't it controlling to decide what people are allowed to think or say?
Even Tony Blair didn't try to rid the LP of its left wing supporters and some of those were far to the left of today's people

Hadn't Neil Kinnock done that before Blair won the leadership of the LP? Militant Tendency?

trisher if I remember rightly to unite, people have to meet in the middle. Since Corbyn went, I see absolutely no sign of the left displaying any willingness to compromise. Instead it’s sour grapes, malicious rumours and downright lies all the way. Most people see the campaign that’s being mounted for what it is.
And yes, MaizieD Neil Kinnock did, and got a very rough ride as a result. Deja vu anybody?

''Starmer is a hypocrite, a liar and wants to control people.''

not bitter did you say Grany?

The Labour left will continue to be un-electable.

That is not an issue per se - but it does mean that if the Labour extreme left scuppers the Labour Party- we will have the Tories again, and again- however dire, rotten, perverse and worse, they have recently been proven to be (not all Cons- but those in charge, and those who support them).

I think a fundamental question is whether the Labour Party has a natural voter base given that the traditional working class numbers have been reducing since before WW2 and not all of them voted Labour. It seems to me that Starmer has the classic problem of holding together a party prone to splits as did Harold Wilson. It is only in recent times that the Tories have experienced this because of the EU (to John Major's discomfort) and it will be interesting to see whether now the Brexit mistake has happened it will continue to find reasons to split.

I can’t see how any party could be worse than what we have

My fear is that starmer will have no option but to Get rid of the momentum/militant group who don’t want a labour govt. they want a revolution - which won’t happen. So Starmer does a kinnock, making way for a leader who is in a stronger position to unite the party
It’s no good blaming Starmer for the disruptive
Behaviour of a small but noisy group

Iam I fear you are right.

Casdon

trisher if I remember rightly to unite, people have to meet in the middle. Since Corbyn went, I see absolutely no sign of the left displaying any willingness to compromise. Instead it’s sour grapes, malicious rumours and downright lies all the way. Most people see the campaign that’s being mounted for what it is.
And yes, MaizieD Neil Kinnock did, and got a very rough ride as a result. Deja vu anybody?

People were willing to back Starmer but Starmer is throwing the left out of the party including the Jews who support Palestine

So Starmer said he would unite but is not he's doing the opposite

Jews in Labour Party who support Palestine. Could you please give more information on this?

MaizieD

trisher

So did he not promise to "unite" the party? I've yet to see any definition of unite which means just getting rid of one lot of people.
Isn't it controlling to decide what people are allowed to think or say?
Even Tony Blair didn't try to rid the LP of its left wing supporters and some of those were far to the left of today's people

Hadn't Neil Kinnock done that before Blair won the leadership of the LP? Militant Tendency?

But Neil Kinnock didn't actually expel member of Militant or the extreme left. Some Militant members were expelled by local parties. But Militant had been putting its own candidates up as MPs. Eventually Militant chose to leave the party and became independent. There were though some people remaining who would be considered far to the left of those described as far-left today. When Tony Blair managed to change Clause 4 there were still people in the party who believed in it. There have always been left wing party members.
Guess who said this in 2017
“We’re a broad church and we should remain a broad church,” he says. “It is one of the great strengths of the party that it’s a broad church. It has allowed the party to change over time and to remain relevant over the very many years of its history.

“It started off as a narrowly-based party of the trade unions and working people as its primary function. Then it broadened and embraced all sorts of other important social issues – including all the work that’s been done recently in relation to equality and sexuality, then into climate change and environmental protection. That broad church is important because it allows us to be a broad-based party that’s representing a broad swathe of people across Britain, but also because it gives us the flexibility to be the party of the future as well as the party of the past.”

The people who dislike and distrust Keir Starmer are not actually doing him any harm though because they do not have a place in the mainstream media.
They are though a convenient scapegoat when Keir Starmer is not proving to be as popular as he thought he would be. The left wing is blamed for being "disruptive" and if only everyone would get behind the elected leader he would be more successful.
I don't think that his party would be worse than the Conservatives but I don't think it would be very different in tone. Rachel Reeves still talks about "magic money trees" and both she and Keir Starmer welcomed with open arms a man who voted against free school meals for children.

Lots of people like myself have left the party and Rachel Reeves says she is glad about that because we don't share her values. Well if her values include taking free school dinners away from children then she is correct, I don't share them.

Having said that of course I have "nowhere else to go" and until there is I will probably continue to vote Labour. Not least because of Andy Burnham and the Manchester labour Council who I think are doing a good job.

Kali2

Jews in Labour Party who support Palestine. Could you please give more information on this?

jwa.org/blog/weaponization-antisemitism-naomi-wimborne-idrissis-suspension-uk-labour-party

Thank you trisher.

The anti semitism/Jews in the Labour Party/Palestine is more complex than some posters will ever acknowledge

‘People’were not willing to support Starmer trisher, nobody was going to measure up to their hero, and Starmer was not in their top choices for the replacement either. Dissent was there from the beginning.
I agree Iam64. It’s smoke and mirrors.