Legacy of the fraudulent referendum

Kali2

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Some Good News:

Ministers are said to be negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card to Australia, New Zealand and Israel.

Britain is in talks with Australia, New Zealand and Israel to give holidaymakers free healthcare when they are abroad as part of a post-Brexit scheme for travellers.

The Sunday Telegraph understands ministers are negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to a number of countries outside the bloc.

The talks, which are being spearheaded by Health Secretary Sajid Javid, are the first steps towards the Government’s ambition to give British travellers basic health protection across the globe.

Because we all frequently pop across to the other side of the globe for the weekend, don't we? What a stunningly useful thing this successor to the EHIC will be..

Only one country so far has been able to sign a reciprocal agreement on healthcare- Switzerland, where EHIC(now GHIC is valid, unlike in the EU.

Yet you can bet your EHIC that no visiting EU citizen will be denied health care in the U.K., No insurance or credit cards asked for on your hospital trolley. We should really change tack on this. Good for the goose etc.

MaizieD
On the program outlining how the rich got richer after the 2008 crash ( as if we didn’t know) this subject was brought up towards the end of the program.
Millions of people, particularly in poorer areas wanted to give the Tory’s a kicking.

Dickens
Very good post.

Chatting with my SIL, was saying there are loads of good jobs around. He has just moved jobs into a bigger salary, as alsp has my DS. Lack of labour is bad news for businesses but good news for workers as businesses have to pay more, often just a decent wage. We're short on UK HGV drivers as they're pay and conditions were s**t. Funny, it seems the working man (Labour voter) and young people are reaping benefits from BREXIT yet it's the older generation and Tories voted for it!

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Some Good News:

Ministers are said to be negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card to Australia, New Zealand and Israel.

Britain is in talks with Australia, New Zealand and Israel to give holidaymakers free healthcare when they are abroad as part of a post-Brexit scheme for travellers.

The Sunday Telegraph understands ministers are negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to a number of countries outside the bloc.

The talks, which are being spearheaded by Health Secretary Sajid Javid, are the first steps towards the Government’s ambition to give British travellers basic health protection across the globe.

Because we all frequently pop across to the other side of the globe for the weekend, don't we? What a stunningly useful thing this successor to the EHIC will be..

Only one country so far has been able to sign a reciprocal agreement on healthcare- Switzerland, where EHIC(now GHIC is valid, unlike in the EU.

MaizieD

^We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.^

Some of us have very short memories, Ug (It's called having 'senior moments').

Do remind us of the benefits which you claim you told us about.

And since 5 years ago, things have changed massively no?
What are the benefits we have so far reaped from Brexit?

The point of my post is to say that I, as a Remainer, understand why some voted to leave. I just think they blamed the wrong institution for most of our problems.

Your analysis fails to explain why the NE, with one of the lowest %ages of immigrants in the UK, voted predominantly Leave (though highly diverse, multicultural Newcastle voted Remain).

I think it had a great deal to do with sticking one on the tories...

Urmstongran

Some Good News:

Ministers are said to be negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card to Australia, New Zealand and Israel.

Britain is in talks with Australia, New Zealand and Israel to give holidaymakers free healthcare when they are abroad as part of a post-Brexit scheme for travellers.

The Sunday Telegraph understands ministers are negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to a number of countries outside the bloc.

The talks, which are being spearheaded by Health Secretary Sajid Javid, are the first steps towards the Government’s ambition to give British travellers basic health protection across the globe.

Because we all frequently pop across to the other side of the globe for the weekend, don't we? What a stunningly useful thing this successor to the EHIC will be..

Urmstongran

So you are joyous about Biden? ?
And you voted Remain no wonder you felt upset.

That's really nasty Urmstongran

and eazybee's contribution just after shows how the level of political criticism in this country had decayed recently

I think what is not understood about our membership of the EU is that in our very economically and culturally divided nation, its benefits were not equally perceived.

This is a bit difficult to explain without getting into controversial territory. Let me put it this way. I live in a fairly wealthy town in The Cotswolds which has seen an increase in immigrants from Europe, but only to a limited degree. Culturally, the town has not changed much and what little change there has been is beneficial. But compare that to, for example, Boston in Lincolnshire, where a big percentage of the residents were born outside the UK and where the 'culture' of the place changed, it seems, virtually overnight. Does it matter? Well yes, I think it does. We are all a bit 'tribal' - as are the immigrants themselves - and that sense of 'belonging' to a community matters. As a Remainer, it still matters to me and I would not like to see the heritage of my town obliterated - even tho' I understand that we progress and the world evolves and changes constantly. And how well prepared are / were we for an immigration influx in terms of housing and infrastructure? Tony Blair, IMO, made a mistake in not taking the option given by the EU to stagger the number of immigrants arriving at any one time. His "let them all come" policy was wrong. The very reason that option was given by the EU was so that countries could prepare their infrastructure for increased numbers. We were not prepared and Blair must have known that - or should have.

But, here's the thing. Most of our nation's problems were not caused by EU membership, they were and are 'home-grown'... as Boris Johnson himself acknowledged back in 2013 when he penned an article on the future referendum in which he wrote:

“If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by “Bwussels”, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure,”

What a shame he is now blaming the EU for all our shortcomings, eh? An act of political expediency.

The point of my post is to say that I, as a Remainer, understand why some voted to leave. I just think they blamed the wrong institution for most of our problems.

The effects of the Brexit vote are there for all to see. I'm no fan if Hestletine but I can't see anything in the article that is untrue. People heard what they wanted to. By and large the naysayers have been proved correct.

Michael Heseltine was an arrogant and entitled politician who has never recovered from his attempt to overthrow Margaret Thatcher and replace her as leader, instead of which he created a vacuum for John Major to fill. Now an extremely embittered old man he has spent the remainder of his long life rising occasionally from his coffin and emulating Edward Heath as the Incredible Sulk.

So you are joyous about Biden? ?
And you voted Remain no wonder you felt upset.

The year of 2016 was one of the worst in my lifetime. Brexit and the election of trump. I sometimes read back through my journals and the despair, anger and dismay shines through. I think we could call 2016 the year of the lie.

Some Good News:

Ministers are said to be negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card to Australia, New Zealand and Israel.

Britain is in talks with Australia, New Zealand and Israel to give holidaymakers free healthcare when they are abroad as part of a post-Brexit scheme for travellers.

The Sunday Telegraph understands ministers are negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to a number of countries outside the bloc.

The talks, which are being spearheaded by Health Secretary Sajid Javid, are the first steps towards the Government’s ambition to give British travellers basic health protection across the globe.

The referendum was not fraudulent. It was conducted in a legal and proper way with no evidence of votes being added or subtracted illegally.

If people could not see through the lies and deceit in one of the campaigns then they have only themselves to blame.

Brexit will be delivered better now we are at the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It’s been an horrendous time world wide with restrictions and logistics to manage it. I think energy will be channelled into Brexit matters this summer.

Jaberwok

You and me both Urm. Resolution: Avoid GN politics. I must stick with this time.

What, because some people disagree with you ? Yes I was and am a remainer. I try to think There are rational and irrational brexiters and remainers. . Heseltine is rational.

Why just flounce off ?

Coastpath asks you in a reasonable way about some of the points raised in the article ?

I see that a Tory mp decided to see for himself the chaos in Kent.

He got out of the car and trod in a pile of human excrement.

Karma?

Urmstongran

Yes, quite right Kali2. Which I did ad nauseum 5y ago.
Check out my historical posts as I say.

I have NO regrets voting Leave.
In fact I’d do it again given the chance. It was a great feeling the morning after the vote.

As I’ve said before, 45y of being shackled to Brussels will take some uncoupling. We’ve not had 45 months yet (thanks to all those ‘indicative votes’ in the HoC).

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

Je ne regrette rien.

Everybody's talking about a new world in the morning.

You've got to reap (reap, reap) just what you sow.

Any more musical clichés, anyone?

Urmstongran

Not from me Barmeyoldbat. I did so light years ago.
Check out my historical posts, if you can be bothered.
Not going there again.
As I said ‘Groundhog Day’.

Light years are a unit of distance. ?

Not quite sure what Michael Heseltine has said or done to rate him as "obnoxious'.
And as a 'rich landowner' is he 'miffed' that he has lost an EU subsidy? Is he? Do we know that or is that simply an assumption?

Really, Grandmafrench we're just seeing here an example of the infantile language and shallow thinking that characterises many Leave voters. I just keep being horrified that we've been ripped out of the EU for such petty and childish reasons... Spite about the perceived 'elite'. It's shameful.

What I'm finding so extraordinarily ironic is that Leavers were bleating on about 'draining the swamp', having a clear out of the corrupt 'urban elite' and yet they've managed to install in No 10 the most corrupt and blatant freeloader I think the nation has ever seen in its parliamentary history. A man who cares nothing about doing the job he lied and cheated to obtain and everything about wringing every penny, every free holiday, every free meal, every inch of gold wallpaper he can get out of it for himself...

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

Some of us have very short memories, Ug (It's called having 'senior moments').

Do remind us of the benefits which you claim you told us about.

Not quite sure what Michael Heseltine has said or done to rate him as "obnoxious'.
And as a 'rich landowner' is he 'miffed' that he has lost an EU subsidy? Is he? Do we know that or is that simply an assumption?

So, in the interests of fairness, we should remind ourselves that Dominic Cummings, for the Durham farm which he co-owns with his family, had received between £208,000 and £250,000 in EU subsidies over 20 years prior to the UK leaving the EU.

On the subject of EU subsidies, Cummings wrote in 2015

... From public procurement to international trade, our membership of the EU undermines good government and sensible policy and wastes billions annually ...

And

...It is so slow moving that it remains stuck with agricultural subsidies dreamed up in the 1950's and 1960's that raise prices for the poor to subsidise rich farmers while damaging agriculture in Africa...

Breathtaking hypocrisy or just "obnoxious?"

Describing Cummings as a 'self-styled revolutionary menace', Heseltine has expanded on his own concerns by stating :

...We've got this guy, who is now in direct contact with the British media and briefing them on policies, scathingly attacking members of the House of Commons and parading himself as the mastermind behind the government.
That's an intolerable position for democracy.
It should be absolutely central that parliament should be able to call to account people who represent them as ministers and at the moment we're being told by a particular figure, who's proud of it, that he's more or less running the show...

Those are facts which were reported in the Guardian and the Independent.

My own real opinion of the current Government is unprintable. It's only slightly worse than the way in which the British public was scammed by the lies fed to them to 'get Brexit done' and further disgraceful behaviour in which no enthusiasm was ever mustered to properly present an honest assembly of facts to the British electorate, or to even consider that the then government was certainly in no position just to loaf around in a superior way, taking the view that things were just fine and nothing was ever going to change! Cameron just walking away humming is an image that will haunt many of us forever. Everything, IMHO, appeared to be founded on lies and that state of affairs has worsened and flourished which must surely now have caused almost irreparable damage to Britain's reputation. Cameron's government failed Britain, the unbelievable daily shambles that is Johnson and his government surely cannot be allowed to continue in the way that it has. Lies and hypocrisy must stop before Brexit can be considered a success.

Yes, quite right Kali2. Which I did ad nauseum 5y ago.
Check out my historical posts as I say.

I have NO regrets voting Leave.
In fact I’d do it again given the chance. It was a great feeling the morning after the vote.

As I’ve said before, 45y of being shackled to Brussels will take some uncoupling. We’ve not had 45 months yet (thanks to all those ‘indicative votes’ in the HoC).

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

I think what Barmeyoldbat is thinking about, is a list that makes any sense! Am I right? Don't want to presume here.

Granniesunite ' yes it does'.