Legacy of the fraudulent referendum

Those posters making negative comments about this article seem to be doing so purely on the basis of the way the author voted and not on the points he raised.

I thought it was a very balanced and concise summing up of the situation we find ourselves in. The measured and intelligent way in which it was written made me long for the days when politicians spoke/wrote like this.

He perfectly captured how saddened I feel about the loss of rules put in place to protect workers, the environment and animals and the loss of opportunity and a ready source of essential workers through immigration.

Urmstongran and Jaberwok I would be really interested in your thoughts on the points Mr Hesteltine raised in the article.

Perhaps it's time we started trying to understand each other rather than throwing our hands up in desperation. Otherwise it will always be Groundhog Day.

Jaberwok

You and me both Urm. Resolution: Avoid GN politics. I must stick with this time.

Quite Jaberwok.
All due to Brexit, or is it Climate Change? I forget which, its always one or the other.

I haven’t seen the context of MH’s remarks but what about the false promise on the Brexit bus? What about ‘This will be the easiest deal we’ve ever done’.? What about ‘What about ‘We hold all the cards?’ What about the ‘advisory’ referendum being transformed into a binding commitment?

‘Nuff said indeed.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

That demeans you Urmstongran.

No, I don’t think it does Granniesunite. Sorry.
It just illustrates that after 5 years on this roundabout, opinions are entrenched.
Never the Twain shall meet.

Urmstongran

^Many who voted for Brexit have now come donw with a bump, and have the grace to say they were conned. Respect for them^

I don’t think you even have the self-awareness Kali2 to understand just how patronising that statement is.

How is it patronising to show respect to those with opposing POV's who have backed down?

No sense of 'We told you so.' Just... respect.

Please can someone give me a list of the benefits from BREXIT

Not from me Barmeyoldbat. I did so light years ago.
Check out my historical posts, if you can be bothered.
Not going there again.
As I said ‘Groundhog Day’.

I think what Barmeyoldbat is thinking about, is a list that makes any sense! Am I right? Don't want to presume here.

Granniesunite ' yes it does'.

Yes, quite right Kali2. Which I did ad nauseum 5y ago.
Check out my historical posts as I say.

I have NO regrets voting Leave.
In fact I’d do it again given the chance. It was a great feeling the morning after the vote.

As I’ve said before, 45y of being shackled to Brussels will take some uncoupling. We’ve not had 45 months yet (thanks to all those ‘indicative votes’ in the HoC).

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

Not quite sure what Michael Heseltine has said or done to rate him as "obnoxious'.
And as a 'rich landowner' is he 'miffed' that he has lost an EU subsidy? Is he? Do we know that or is that simply an assumption?

So, in the interests of fairness, we should remind ourselves that Dominic Cummings, for the Durham farm which he co-owns with his family, had received between £208,000 and £250,000 in EU subsidies over 20 years prior to the UK leaving the EU.

On the subject of EU subsidies, Cummings wrote in 2015

... From public procurement to international trade, our membership of the EU undermines good government and sensible policy and wastes billions annually ...

And

...It is so slow moving that it remains stuck with agricultural subsidies dreamed up in the 1950's and 1960's that raise prices for the poor to subsidise rich farmers while damaging agriculture in Africa...

Breathtaking hypocrisy or just "obnoxious?"

Describing Cummings as a 'self-styled revolutionary menace', Heseltine has expanded on his own concerns by stating :

...We've got this guy, who is now in direct contact with the British media and briefing them on policies, scathingly attacking members of the House of Commons and parading himself as the mastermind behind the government.
That's an intolerable position for democracy.
It should be absolutely central that parliament should be able to call to account people who represent them as ministers and at the moment we're being told by a particular figure, who's proud of it, that he's more or less running the show...

Those are facts which were reported in the Guardian and the Independent.

My own real opinion of the current Government is unprintable. It's only slightly worse than the way in which the British public was scammed by the lies fed to them to 'get Brexit done' and further disgraceful behaviour in which no enthusiasm was ever mustered to properly present an honest assembly of facts to the British electorate, or to even consider that the then government was certainly in no position just to loaf around in a superior way, taking the view that things were just fine and nothing was ever going to change! Cameron just walking away humming is an image that will haunt many of us forever. Everything, IMHO, appeared to be founded on lies and that state of affairs has worsened and flourished which must surely now have caused almost irreparable damage to Britain's reputation. Cameron's government failed Britain, the unbelievable daily shambles that is Johnson and his government surely cannot be allowed to continue in the way that it has. Lies and hypocrisy must stop before Brexit can be considered a success.

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

Some of us have very short memories, Ug (It's called having 'senior moments').

Do remind us of the benefits which you claim you told us about.

Not quite sure what Michael Heseltine has said or done to rate him as "obnoxious'.
And as a 'rich landowner' is he 'miffed' that he has lost an EU subsidy? Is he? Do we know that or is that simply an assumption?

Really, Grandmafrench we're just seeing here an example of the infantile language and shallow thinking that characterises many Leave voters. I just keep being horrified that we've been ripped out of the EU for such petty and childish reasons... Spite about the perceived 'elite'. It's shameful.

What I'm finding so extraordinarily ironic is that Leavers were bleating on about 'draining the swamp', having a clear out of the corrupt 'urban elite' and yet they've managed to install in No 10 the most corrupt and blatant freeloader I think the nation has ever seen in its parliamentary history. A man who cares nothing about doing the job he lied and cheated to obtain and everything about wringing every penny, every free holiday, every free meal, every inch of gold wallpaper he can get out of it for himself...

Urmstongran

Not from me Barmeyoldbat. I did so light years ago.
Check out my historical posts, if you can be bothered.
Not going there again.
As I said ‘Groundhog Day’.

Light years are a unit of distance. ?

Urmstongran

Yes, quite right Kali2. Which I did ad nauseum 5y ago.
Check out my historical posts as I say.

I have NO regrets voting Leave.
In fact I’d do it again given the chance. It was a great feeling the morning after the vote.

As I’ve said before, 45y of being shackled to Brussels will take some uncoupling. We’ve not had 45 months yet (thanks to all those ‘indicative votes’ in the HoC).

We will reap the benefits yet of that I totally believe.

Je ne regrette rien.

Everybody's talking about a new world in the morning.

You've got to reap (reap, reap) just what you sow.

Any more musical clichés, anyone?

I see that a Tory mp decided to see for himself the chaos in Kent.

He got out of the car and trod in a pile of human excrement.

Karma?

Jaberwok

You and me both Urm. Resolution: Avoid GN politics. I must stick with this time.

What, because some people disagree with you ? Yes I was and am a remainer. I try to think There are rational and irrational brexiters and remainers. . Heseltine is rational.

Why just flounce off ?

Coastpath asks you in a reasonable way about some of the points raised in the article ?

Brexit will be delivered better now we are at the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It’s been an horrendous time world wide with restrictions and logistics to manage it. I think energy will be channelled into Brexit matters this summer.

The referendum was not fraudulent. It was conducted in a legal and proper way with no evidence of votes being added or subtracted illegally.

If people could not see through the lies and deceit in one of the campaigns then they have only themselves to blame.

Some Good News:

Ministers are said to be negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card to Australia, New Zealand and Israel.

Britain is in talks with Australia, New Zealand and Israel to give holidaymakers free healthcare when they are abroad as part of a post-Brexit scheme for travellers.

The Sunday Telegraph understands ministers are negotiating to extend the successor of the EU Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to a number of countries outside the bloc.

The talks, which are being spearheaded by Health Secretary Sajid Javid, are the first steps towards the Government’s ambition to give British travellers basic health protection across the globe.

The year of 2016 was one of the worst in my lifetime. Brexit and the election of trump. I sometimes read back through my journals and the despair, anger and dismay shines through. I think we could call 2016 the year of the lie.

So you are joyous about Biden? ?
And you voted Remain no wonder you felt upset.

Michael Heseltine was an arrogant and entitled politician who has never recovered from his attempt to overthrow Margaret Thatcher and replace her as leader, instead of which he created a vacuum for John Major to fill. Now an extremely embittered old man he has spent the remainder of his long life rising occasionally from his coffin and emulating Edward Heath as the Incredible Sulk.

The effects of the Brexit vote are there for all to see. I'm no fan if Hestletine but I can't see anything in the article that is untrue. People heard what they wanted to. By and large the naysayers have been proved correct.