Legacy of the fraudulent referendum

The fraudulent referendum was won by lies, cheating and foreign interference. The proven illegalities would have completely nullified the result had the referendum been mandatory, meaning the decision should be enacted, but it was deemed to be merely advisory, giving parliament the freedom to reject to fraudulent win.

"Brexit: Former chair of Vote Leave refuses to apologise for breaching electoral law. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson also among key figures facing growing calls to account for campaign’s illegal behaviour"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-leave-drops-appeal-break-electoral-law-chair-andrew-marr-a8848231.html

What a pity only a minority of our politicians had the guts and integrity to stand up to the power of the right wing media and corrupt party donors.

A great win for Vladimir Putin, who conspired to destabilise the West by weakening the UK and the EU.

A great win for the billionaire tax dodging newspaper proprietors who had their own agenda.

A great win for Dominc Cummings and his front man Boris Johnson.

But an utter tragedy for our once great country.

MaizieD

^Culturally, the town has not changed much and what little change there has been is beneficial. But compare that to, for example, Boston in Lincolnshire, where a big percentage of the residents were born outside the UK and where the 'culture' of the place changed, it seems, virtually overnight^. Does it matter? Well yes, I think it does. We are all a bit 'tribal' - as are the immigrants themselves - and that sense of 'belonging' to a community matters

It's quite ironic when you think that for some 200 years we (Britain) rampaged around the globe imposing our culture on a great many countries and using their resources to make our country wealthy...

It's quite ironic when you think that for some 200 years we (Britain) rampaged around the globe imposing our culture on a great many countries and using their resources to make our country wealthy...

Even more ironic is the fact that we have absorbed facets of some of those countries' cultures into our own and now regard them as 'British'.

But the fact remains that many people identify with their local community / culture, and that is what I was pointing out. I was looking at this from other people's perspective.

The town where I live has always been diverse in its culture (especially in the Arts and Entertainment). We have a mix of Thai, Japanese, East European, Spanish, Italian, French and Polish residents, and it has been like that for the 15 years I've lived here, and nothing has changed. That is the culture and community I personally identify with.

"The president of the National Farmers’ Union has accused the government of using British food producers as a “pawn” in post-Brexit trade deals.

Minette Batters, who has led the organisation representing British farmers since 2018, said “the most prized food market in the world” had been “handed over for nothing” by ministers, in their rush to sign wide-ranging free-trade agreements with Australia and New Zealand after the UK’s departure from the European Union.

Under the terms of the UK-Australia deal, which was signed in December, Australian beef and lamb farmers will gradually gain more access to the UK market over the first 10 years, before all tariffs and quotas on imported meat are removed. Similar arrangements have been agreed for Australian dairy products, with a five-year transition period, and eight years for sugar.

“It does feel like a betrayal,” Batters said in an interview with the Observer. “My greatest fear was that we would be used as a pawn in trade deals and effectively that is what’s happened.”

The nation’s food producers said they had been promised by successive environment secretaries, since Michael Gove held the post between 2017 and 2019, that any post-Brexit free-trade deals would include permanent protection for domestic food producers, in the event of a wave of imports.

“These are really bad trade deals for the UK because there are no checks and balances, she said. “We were promised as farmers that there would be forever-and-a-day safeguards, so if there was a problem, they could do something about it.”

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/29/minette-batters-i-feared-farmers-would-be-used-as-a-pawn-in-trade-deals-and-thats-what-happened

So that's the fruit and veg growers, the meat farmers and the fishermen all likely to find themselves unable to earn a living. All thrown under the bus by Brexit. It isn't really any use trying to explain to them that it took 45 years to establish the EU, so Brexit will take a bit longer. They'll all be out of business by then,

Urmstongran

^Can you imagine how some Spanish and other coastal holiday resorts feel? English shops everywhere, English Cafés and restaurants, hardly anyone who speaks Spanish?^

A somewhat biased view there MaizieD as tourism accounts for 12% of GDP on the Costas. Many visitors (like ourselves) go out to enjoy the sunshine and spend our pensions in said cafe bars and restaurants. We don’t want their jobs! We take private health insurance so our health needs are covered!

Loads of Spanish cafe bar owners are bemoaning the loss of tourism. They were looking out for us all last Easter, hoping for golfing parties, holidaymakers and long stay pensionistas.
We are as a group VERY WELCOME.

Sorry to spoil your narrative but don’t let the truth get in your way of a good rant!

It wasn't me that said it, Ug. Try reading with understanding...

Alegrias1

Urmstongran

How about this one Barmeyoldbat? In the Telegraph just now:

“Patients will receive new cancer drugs more quickly following post-Brexit changes to the regulatory oversight of pharmaceuticals.

The change of policy has already slashed approval times by as much as a month. The MHRA, Britain's regulator, has approved seven cancer treatments under the Project Orbis scheme, which it entered into last year after licensing decisions were no longer made by the European Medicines Agency.

Four of the newly approved treatments are for lung cancer and breast cancer. Another three are extensions of existing treatments.

Project Orbis links the UK to the US, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore and Brazil, harmonising the regulatory process so trial data can be submitted to all the regulators at the same time, where it can be reviewed and treatments approved.“

However, the two new schemes, while likely to expand significantly, are still relatively limited in range and coverage – and from the UK’s perspective, they could not be seen as an equivalent replacement in scale at this stage for its former direct involvement in EMA mutual recognition and centralized review procedures.

Mm hmm. Con indeed

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/pricing-and-market-access/uks-first-drug-approval-via-project-orbis-html/

And the last clause of the article ...

"...whether this will represent any clear advantage over its former membership of the EMA remains to be seen."

On the topic of pharmaceuticals, the UK government has not yet committed to replacing the billions the UK was receiving from the EU for R & D, which is putting British jobs and research centres at risk.

I don't think we are spending any more or less post Brexit at our holiday home abroad, namely around 12,000 euros per annum. The bills and maintenance continue as before, the gardener and cleaner still get paid, the mechanic still services the car etc. We eat out as before and although we are sadly limited to how much wine we can bring home, we now buy only the really expensive posh stuff abroad and just supplement with plonk at home. Fortunately there have been no changes in property ownership, so our place is still an investment. The dog has now become French, so vet fees and treatments are considerably reduced. Even my hair colour and re style is cheaper in France.
The 90 days issue is daft because it helps neither side, luckily we don't wish to spend long periods away.
Perhaps our area doesn't attract the loud British tourists referred to here, maybe that depends more on the age demographic, but I'm guessing even the people of Magalluf and Ibiza have found a way to make it work for them. I would be very surprised if the British contribution to tourism on the continent dropped significantly once the pandemic has passed.

trisher

So that's the fruit and veg growers, the meat farmers and the fishermen all likely to find themselves unable to earn a living. All thrown under the bus by Brexit. It isn't really any use trying to explain to them that it took 45 years to establish the EU, so Brexit will take a bit longer. They'll all be out of business by then,

I don't know why as we have imported so much food from the EU for very many years.

The amount we will be importing from Australia and New Zealand will be tiny in comparison and probably far less than we imported from those two countries when we threw them under a bus in favour of the EU.

Excellent post Dickens at 09.38.

We import from the EU because it's convenient and economic. A lettuce picked in Belgium can be in British stores by the evening or next morning.

The UK has always imported certain foodstuffs from South Africa, North Africa, South America, Norway, etc.

The idea of sustainable food trade with Australia or New Zealand is ridiculous.

It makes economic sense to import from areas where food can be produced and transported from most efficiently, which in many cases is the EU.

The UK produces wealth from trading, research and financial services, which make a better use of our resources than growing salad crops or eating the fish which happen to swim in our waters, for example, ever could.

The UK has always imported certain foodstuffs from South Africa, North Africa, South America, Norway, etc.

The idea of sustainable food trade with Australia or New Zealand is ridiculous.

It makes economic sense to import from areas where food can be produced and transported from most efficiently, which in many cases is the EU.

If it makes sense to import foodstuffs from eg Chile, Argentina, Brazil why does it not make sense to import foodstuffs from Australia?


The argument is not about logistics, is it - it's more anti-Brexit rhetoric.
We lost the referendum , growstuff but I don't lose hope and try not to complain about things I cannot change.

(Interesting username considering the discussion! Do you grow your own?)

We import from the EU because it's convenient and economic. A lettuce picked in Belgium can be in British stores by the evening or next morning.

True

And, of course, a lettuce grown in Australia would cost three times as much because, unlike the EU, farm workers even casual ones, are paid a very good minimum wage plus holiday pay and pension. Unlike countries like Spain which uses slave labour from Africa.

From my angle the argument isn't about logistics or Brexit, it's about the environment. Environmentally it doesn't make sense to import food from the other side of the world if it can be grown successfully in Europe.

This is an interesting article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55408788

I expect all those locals in Ibiza and other party places love practising their English on the English youth who go to get drunk and behave appallingly in their country. I'm ashamed of them. Another thing about Brexit lies - weren't we told that everyone in all these other countries were deeply envious of the Brits and that the EU would collapse as soon as we left? The city of London has lost out as being the centre of Euro derivatives, and many thousands of jobs have gone.

HolySox

Chatting with my SIL, was saying there are loads of good jobs around. He has just moved jobs into a bigger salary, as alsp has my DS. Lack of labour is bad news for businesses but good news for workers as businesses have to pay more, often just a decent wage. We're short on UK HGV drivers as they're pay and conditions were s**t. Funny, it seems the working man (Labour voter) and young people are reaping benefits from BREXIT yet it's the older generation and Tories voted for it!

Surely it depends upon the nature of your SIL's work - there are lots of good jobs around (my post elsewhere refers to them). However, they are mostly for skilled people and are not offering training.

In case it's escaped your notice, many of the jobs now available are because people approaching retirement age have decided to take early retirement. Furthermore, you are not considering the locations of the vacancies.

Remember Tebbit telling people to get on their bikes?

I'm sure all the business that are supported by tourism in any part of Spain are glad for the revenue that they get from visitors, whether they go there to dance in the bars, sit in the sun or eat fish and chips. Or even visit their historical sites and experience their natural places.

But I do get annoyed by the insistence that they're happy to take our money and who cares if we don't speak Spanish to them, they like to speak English approach. Its the worst aspect of the Brit abroad, IMO. Sorry.

But it has always been thus Alegrias1. I don't think the mentality of those Brits will change.
If anything, Brexit might have made a certain number of people less discerning, even less well behaved and respectful abroad, but I hope not. It verges on arrogance.

Alegrias1

I'm sure all the business that are supported by tourism in any part of Spain are glad for the revenue that they get from visitors, whether they go there to dance in the bars, sit in the sun or eat fish and chips. Or even visit their historical sites and experience their natural places.

But I do get annoyed by the insistence that they're happy to take our money and who cares if we don't speak Spanish to them, they like to speak English approach. Its the worst aspect of the Brit abroad, IMO. Sorry.

Well as a person who pre-Covid travelled abroad at least four times a year, different Countries and different Continents, who has a smattering of several different languages I have never been anywhere where they did not want to/try to converse in English.

You can be as cross as you like Alegrias1 but that’s how it is.

But that's exactly the attitude. They all wanna speak English, don't they?

Imagine, oh I don't know... say you had a holiday home in a foreign country that you visited several times a year. Your knowledge of the local language is so patchy that when the waiter hears what you speaking, s/he immediately switches into English because they know you're struggling.

I'd be embarrassed. But maybe its just me...(and everybody I know)

Kali2 You do a disservice to the Dordogne and us Brits.

There is one town where nearly all the businesses are run by Brits - Eymet - which I've visited once and probably won't again. In my commune of more than 650 souls, there are precisely 19 resident Brits. There are also a few Dutch and American. Generally the French us because we keep businesses open. Talking to a French resident the other night about what the village used to be like he said that there were two butchers, three bars, a quincaillerie, bakers, post office and so. Now we have a baker (excellent bread) and a shoe repairer. The bar closed in August and the restaurant in October. The latter isn't opening this year. The former is opening tomorrow - under a manager because the owner is an anti vaxxer.

It's a similar picture in England. The village I used to live in was used as a location for the film Akenfield. The author Ronald Blythe used to live along the from us. At one time the village had several businesses. One house was called TOPOS - short for The Old Post Office Shop. The main difference between England and France is that the incomers are of the same nationality as the existing residents in the villages. I realise this is rather a sweeping statement but you get the picture.

Kali2

There is 'tourism and tourism' ! And there is a bigt difference between those who travel for 1 week or two, or those who travel like swallows, for a whole season.

I think many Spaniard would love to see more Spanish restaurants, serving good quality local fare, and bars, and tourists being more respectful of the local culture and fare, and try to make a mit more effort with learning the language, etc.

Back in the 80s we borrowed a flat near Mojacar. My Baedeker had a photo of the town on the front cover and it looked lovely.
Imagine our disappointment when we searched for a restaurant selling Spanish food. We did find one and the food was delicious but too expensive for us to eat there often. The others sold "Euro" food - burgers, pizzas, spag bol, fish and chips etc etc. More than half the resident population at that time was British and added to that, Scandinavians and some other nationalities.

We had a trip to Almeria and one to Granada and found authentic Spanish food at both, which was very good. Maybe things have changed now and the Brits cook Spanish food too.

Alegrias1

But that's exactly the attitude. They all wanna speak English, don't they?

Imagine, oh I don't know... say you had a holiday home in a foreign country that you visited several times a year. Your knowledge of the local language is so patchy that when the waiter hears what you speaking, s/he immediately switches into English because they know you're struggling.

I'd be embarrassed. But maybe its just me...(and everybody I know)

My family lived in mainland Europe, in a country which was not part of the EU for over ten years, we spoke the language, worked with locals and immigrants from multiple Countries and my sibling attended school there.

Does it really annoy you that English is spoken worldwide?

Research by New Financial indicates that: Between June 2015 and April 2021, over 440 banking and finance organisations have left the UK and relocated to the EU. ... 7,400 financial services jobs have moved, leading to concern that new jobs may be created in the EU rather than the UK in the future.

Why is it 'annoying' when other nationalities speak their language among each other in the UK? AND learn and speak the local language too.

No issue with English being spoken worldwide- not at all. It is very useful for all. But there is a limit- when Anglo-Saxon expats DEMAND that everyone speaks English, from the shop-keeper, to the plumber, doctor, police or ... anyone, then it grates. And it changes the local culture. This was mentionned because someone mentionned how some towns in the UK have seen their local culture change due to groups of foreigners (Boston was mentionned). At least most East Europeans in the UK speak English and learn fast- unlike ...

When you have communities where all the shops, cafés, restaurants, Churches, clubs and schools, etc- speak a different language, it can affect the local community. And no less so when it is Anglo-Saxons elsewhere, be it in Spain, Cyprus, etc, or posh ski resorts, and low taxation towns in Switzerland.

Fact check. There are 6912 languages in the world. 94% of the world’s population does not speak English as their first language. 75% do not speak English at all. It depends which country you go to, obviously as percentages who speak English vary - it’s a challenge in Japan I do know.