Legacy of the fraudulent referendum

That was to 17.44 post.

Alegrias1

But that's exactly the attitude. They all wanna speak English, don't they?

Imagine, oh I don't know... say you had a holiday home in a foreign country that you visited several times a year. Your knowledge of the local language is so patchy that when the waiter hears what you speaking, s/he immediately switches into English because they know you're struggling.

I'd be embarrassed. But maybe its just me...(and everybody I know)

You seem to be a bit chippy about this Alegrias.
The 3 Spanish bars under our apartment where we visit several times a year are so lovely with us. We spend well, we’ve gotten to know their grandchildren, we’ve taken presents, they know of our family.

They never rush us when we try. We order. They listen.
They are so kind.
They never immediately switch into English.
I’m not embarrassed.
We’ve known them all 18 years! They are patient.
But they and their staff DO like very much to practice their English!

It’s a universal 2nd language.
Sorry if that annoys you.

Spanish parents there in our residential area pay €60 a month for their little children to have English lessons. Of course they like to practice.
?

Josieann ✅
Thank you for understanding.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that umg.

Thank you Kali2 ?

Interesting to read today that there are 165,000 British who have received permanent resident cards here in France. Estimates have always varied hugely, but these are presumably pretty accurate. We do have to show them quite frequently.

I imagine Mamie that governments (everywhere) are tightening up. Technology helps now too. Not before time.
Too many folk have ducked and dived over the years because they could.

We speak English together all the time, but we are both fluent in French and switch whenever we are in company.

OH will always have a strong English accent, that everyone loves here- but he can communicate freely. He is a scientist and only skimmed his O'Level and is certainly not a natural linguist. But it was always clear to him that if he was going to spend lenghthy periods of time abroad, he had to learn the language- out of respect for the locals. Very few anglo-saxon immigrants here, but plenty from Italy, Portugal, Spain and the Balkans.

Boston and East Europeans, or other towns with other immigrants- changing the culture of those areas - yes, this has always been so, Picts, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Romans, Normans - and so many more over the centuries. What I strongly object to, is that often the very people who complain about the above, go on and do exactly the same, even 'worse' as they don't even learn the local language at all. And THEY do change the culture. Very many notable and wonderful exceptions, I know.

You can go to some towns in the South of Spain, Cyprus, in parts of France- where the local language is not heard at all- and shops and restaurants, markets, etc- cater almost 100% to those incomers.

A huge number of Brits have been living under the radar, neither here, nor there - and travelled to the UK to use the NHS as and when needed- despite them not being entiltled to use the NHS anymore, as it is residence based, not nationality.

You can go to some towns in the South of Spain, Cyprus, in parts of France- where the local language is not heard at all- and shops and restaurants, markets, etc- cater almost 100% to those incomers

Good point Kali2.
‘Horses for courses’ comes to mind. ?

People commenting on Asians in the U.K. speaking their own language and living in cultural enclaves might remember that the British did exactly the same when they colonised their countries.

Where is that in France Kali2? We went to Eymet when we were on our holiday in the Dordogne and I would say about a third of the stalls were British (excellent pork pies, very nice after two years without). I have never come across anywhere 100% British in France.
Also of course, we can legitimately use our S1 forms in Britain for the NHS (not that we would want to unless taken ill there).

Ladyleftfieldlover

The year of 2016 was one of the worst in my lifetime. Brexit and the election of trump. I sometimes read back through my journals and the despair, anger and dismay shines through. I think we could call 2016 the year of the lie.

Same here. I can still remember referendum night: it was one long nightmare. I just wanted to forget about politics in my old age and let my children worry about their children’s future but I can’t recall a day since then when I haven’t felt anger or a week when I haven’t protested in some way or written to politicians. And the year of the lie just led to some strange acceptance that lying was a normal part of politics.

Surely we can never reconcile ourselves to living in a country ruled by liars?

0nly 160,000 resident cards? The figure for Brits in France used to be bandied about at double that, was it so wrong ?
So have they left as living 'under the radar ' is a risky
business now.

Mamie

Where is that in France Kali2? We went to Eymet when we were on our holiday in the Dordogne and I would say about a third of the stalls were British (excellent pork pies, very nice after two years without). I have never come across anywhere 100% British in France.
Also of course, we can legitimately use our S1 forms in Britain for the NHS (not that we would want to unless taken ill there).

Yes, in that region. We just could not believe our eyes or ears. Stall after stall, we asked abut stuff on sale, in French, and the reply came in English. We sat on terrasses, and everyone spoke English. We are all bilingual in our family, and we just could not believe it. It felt all wrong- and totally unbalanced. It made us all feel uncomfortable and embarrassed.

The waiters didn't even try to speak French, and automatically spoke English.

Of course S1 is legal for British retirees to use the NHS- the ones I mentionned are early retirees who are not entitled to S1, and just use an old address, or a relative's address- and who illegally stayed on their GPs list.

Our experience is that a lot of people have gone halfpint1. When we went shopping in our nearest city it used to be common to hear English in DiY shops etc. Now it is very unusual. A lot of people who tried to run businesses went back before Brexit, then another wave afterwards. I think the numbers were also distorted by long-stay second home owners, who have gone. Young folk went because they couldn't make a living, older folk have died or gone after bereavement. Our experience of those that have stayed is that they are pretty rooted in French communities.
I think there was a time when places were as Kali2 describes, but I honestly don't think it is now. 165,000 is not that many in a country the size of France.

Covid has also meant that a lot more people have gone back or stayed in the UK. You really would not want to risk being here without health cover or residence card in Covid. No place to hide in lockdown.

vegansrock

People commenting on Asians in the U.K. speaking their own language and living in cultural enclaves might remember that the British did exactly the same when they colonised their countries.

Totally get that vegansrock. Like attracts like of course.
But in the West, women are allowed out on their own
To shop.
To work.
Muslim men won’t allow their womenfolk that choice. No wonder their children, brought up in the West with all its freedoms, struggle because of medieval constraints at home.

Indeed Mamie, our visit to the Dordogne was 6 years ago.

Difficult to judge here in our regions, as so few British 'expats' are here. In our Valley, we know all of them, but they are all married to locals and have been here for so long and all speak fluent French- not an option here. We love getting together and have a good chinwag, and share British fare, usually home-made as there are no specialist shops, or brought back from a visit to the UK- but all very well 'integrated' and part of the Community.

It’s a universal 2nd language.
Sorry if that annoys you.

What a bizarre thing to say. Que sorprendente. Not.

Anyway, I'm really grateful that so many people understand a bit of the language I learnt to speak as a child. Makes life easier.

However, if I'd been going to the same place several times a year for 18 years and couldn't master the local language, I'd probably not console myself with the fact that the local chaps were jolly pleased about it and were benefitting from it because they get to learn English.

I’m sure actually living in Europe must make a huge difference to one’s mindset Kali2.
Not at all comparable with being a second home owner or holidaymaker, who just visit and pay their taxes elsewhere.

Muslim men won’t allow their womenfolk that choice.

I must mention that to all the Muslim men (and women) I know.

Really, quite a ridiculous thing to say Urmstongran

Stop being smug Alegiras.
You mean me (18y is the clue).

Yes it sounds a lot but for 12y we just holidayed there, 4 weeks annual leave a YEAR.

And as I’ve already pointed out, I have tried to learn Spanish.
I’m not good with it.
So shoot me.