As if there isn't enough evidence that Johnson is unfit for office

What we can do is align more closely with the EU, either with a bespoke arrangement of by joining EFTA (if they'd have us).

But that won't happen even if Johnson goes because the tory majority is commanded by the far right Brexiters and no new tory PM will be able to withstand them. If they try it will split the tory party.

The tory party has a huge problem. It has two choices.

1) Become decent, split and lose power

2) Continue to be governed by the extreme right wing and do it's best to cement an unshakeable grip on power.

Cunco

If I misquoted Lord Adonis, I apologise. I do not use Twitter but this has appeared under his name.

twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1481325190269259777

I have always thought that we should have a close relationship with the EU but outside its 'ever closer union'. Whether this is possible now is as much in the hands of the EU as the UK. Common sense says it should be; but I don't see much evidence of commons sense on either side of the Channel.

I suspect the channels of communication between the leading the Remainers and the EU are still open. I don't share your view that a deal could not be struck, signed by a Prime Minister and passed by Parliament. It was how we joined the EC in 1973. This might not require approval by a Referendum and, given the experience of 2016, I suspect that if another Referendum could be avoided, it would be.

..and I should apologise for saying that Adonis didn't say that. It's clear from the Twitter link you posted that he did.

But he's wrong and he should know better.

Cunco

If I misquoted Lord Adonis, I apologise. I do not use Twitter but this has appeared under his name.

twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1481325190269259777

I have always thought that we should have a close relationship with the EU but outside its 'ever closer union'. Whether this is possible now is as much in the hands of the EU as the UK. Common sense says it should be; but I don't see much evidence of commons sense on either side of the Channel.

I suspect the channels of communication between the leading the Remainers and the EU are still open. I don't share your view that a deal could not be struck, signed by a Prime Minister and passed by Parliament. It was how we joined the EC in 1973. This might not require approval by a Referendum and, given the experience of 2016, I suspect that if another Referendum could be avoided, it would be.

.. and then submit an article 49 request to the European Council, which then takes advice from the European Commission, and needs a majority vote in the European Parliament, followed by a unanimous vote in the European Council – i.e. unanimous support from the heads of state of the 27 European members. Personally, I’d be surprised if they got that even if they tried.

I have always thought that we should have a close relationship with the EU but outside its 'ever closer union'.

One of the bitter ironies of the referendum is that an opt out from 'ever closer union' had been achieved in Cameron's negotiations with the EU. The Leave campaigners kept very quiet about that. Just kept saying that he hadn't won anything.

Oops - that was another thread, sorry!

Not going to have a pot shot at my 1707 comment then? How unlike you.

Shock News! Alegrias1 has been vehemently anti-Tory for several decades!!

My question about the what would happen post-Bojo was not suggested as a reason for him to stay. I think he should go. My question was a genuine question.

I am a simple man from the land of the sugar beat. You don't need to hunt for hidden meanings in my comments. I try to be honest and, if I make a mistake, I apologise. It seems there isn't much of it about these days.

If I misquoted Lord Adonis, I apologise. I do not use Twitter but this has appeared under his name.

twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1481325190269259777

I have always thought that we should have a close relationship with the EU but outside its 'ever closer union'. Whether this is possible now is as much in the hands of the EU as the UK. Common sense says it should be; but I don't see much evidence of commons sense on either side of the Channel.

I suspect the channels of communication between the leading the Remainers and the EU are still open. I don't share your view that a deal could not be struck, signed by a Prime Minister and passed by Parliament. It was how we joined the EC in 1973. This might not require approval by a Referendum and, given the experience of 2016, I suspect that if another Referendum could be avoided, it would be.

Cunco Brexit cannot 'go' and Adonis did not say that. He actually said 'Brexit isn't working' which you may or may not agree with and 'we need to move step by step towards a proper common sense relationship with our European partners' - which I'm sure you do agree with unless you believe we shouldn't have a common sense relationship.

The only way we can rejoin the EU is the same way as any other country can apply to join. Submit an article 49 request to the Council, which then takes advice from the Commission, and needs a majority vote in the Parliament, followed by a unanimous vote in the Council – i.e. unanimous support from the heads of state of the 27 members. Personally, I’d be surprised if they got that even if they tried.

Germanshepherdsmum

I have never understood the ‘if Boris goes Brexit goes’ mantra. Yes I voted to remain but the prospect of revisiting that unholy mess is appalling.

Starmer has made it clear that won’t happen, and I trust the man’s truth and integrity.

Among this feeding frenzy, a pause for thought. Johnson is 4/7 on to depart as PM in 2022. It's not the 1/7 on it once was but it is still a racing certainty. So, if he goes, who takes over? Would he/she have a better chance of winning the next election than Bojo? If better, as seems likely, where would this leave Labour and Starmer?

Why do people think this is a valid reason not to get this man out of office?

I've been vehemently anti-Tory for several decades, since Thatcher's time. But in all these years we've never had a person at the top of government who is so egregiously unsuited to the honour. So the question comes down to this; do we stick with the guy we've got, because it means that the Tories might lose next time, or do we replace him with somebody whose policies I might abhor but who at least doesn't survive by lying, blaming others and despising the electorate and his colleagues?

Every minute that he remains in office the reputation of this country suffers and we turn more to being a banana republic. I'm afraid that unlike the shameful Tory MPs who are still supporting him, I think having an honest person in charge is better than covering my own back.

Coastpath

Whitewavemark2

Anyone having trouble distinguishing between Trump and Johnson and their supporters?

Yes. Exactly this.

Just had a email from a very old friend in Canada. Amongst the news about the astounding weather she has experienced this week, she also said that her friends in Canada with contacts in the U.K. are appalled at what they see as the U.K. PM becoming Trump.

I have never understood the ‘if Boris goes Brexit goes’ mantra. Yes I voted to remain but the prospect of revisiting that unholy mess is appalling.

Whitewavemark2

Anyone having trouble distinguishing between Trump and Johnson and their supporters?

Yes. Exactly this.

We will never move on with Johnson.

His behaviour will never change. A change in management structure will not make an iota a difference, other than to prove that everything Johnson touches he destroys

Among this feeding frenzy, a pause for thought. Johnson is 4/7 on to depart as PM in 2022. It's not the 1/7 on it once was but it is still a racing certainty. So, if he goes, who takes over? Would he/she have a better chance of winning the next election than Bojo? If better, as seems likely, where would this leave Labour and Starmer?

Of course, Lord Adonis has already trumpeted that if Boris goes, Brexit goes, making many who voted for Brexit wary of letting Boris go and the credentials of his potential successor.

Sometimes it is worth standing back and being careful what you wish for. The Opposition wanted the Met to investigate the parties and, when it did, we could not see the full Grey Report. Hopefully, both will be concluded soon so whatever the outcome, we can move on, with or without Boris. Hopefully, also, a better management structure will emerge in No. 10.

I find it sad that someone who has wanted a particular job all his life can make such a monumental and totally avoidable mess of it. He won’t go down in history for the reasons he wanted.

Whitewavemark2

O’Brien just replayed Starmer’s reply to Johnson’s statement yesterday.

Listen to that and it begins to dawn on you how badly we have been served by our statesmen over recent years.

We need to get back to the level of integrity displayed by Starmer

I’ve watched it several times now and it makes me cry each time. Even Conservative supporters I know are now saying he’s a PM in waiting.

Every single person who comes into contact with Johnson always gets damaged

Anyone having trouble distinguishing between Trump and Johnson and their supporters?

FannyCornforth

FannyCornforth

It’s all beneath him, isn’t it?

Beneath him, yet, beyond him

Apologies for quoting myself, but I do think that this is at the root of all of his problems.

He believes that he is terribly bright and quite the thing, yet in reality is a total f** wit.

Love it!

The Boris Johnson who yesterday lied that Keir Starmer didn't prosecute Jimmy Saville is also the same Boris Johnson who said that £60 million pounds had been 'spaffed up the wall' in an inquiry into child abuse.

news.sky.com/video/boris-johnson-says-60m-spaffed-up-the-wall-on-child-abuse-inquiries-11664122

O’Brien just replayed Starmer’s reply to Johnson’s statement yesterday.

Listen to that and it begins to dawn on you how badly we have been served by our statesmen over recent years.

We need to get back to the level of integrity displayed by Starmer

I'm thinking that Johnson is going to ride it out, come what may. They have no one to replace him and hope that his personality will help them through the next election. Can only hope that the electorate take a stand, although I have my doubts. I'm going to join the Labour party.

Oh yes (reminded by O’Brien) and the Queen.

Tricked into the proroguing of parliament.