Keir Starmer rescued by police

09:59Boz

Johnson, like Trump, is debasing politics to hang on to political power and avoid disgrace by harnessing the ignorant mob mentality as an aid. Shameful.

Well isn't that what Starmer and Co are doing bringing partygate up all the time with accusations true or false against Boris. Starmer could be accused along with others of inciting violence against Boris. It works both ways.

So, Maudi , do you think Johnson's lies, smears and behaviours unbefitting of our Prime Minister should go un remarked, swept under the carpet ?
Had not Johnson behaved in this reprehensible way there would be no need to bring anything up. He must, however be held to account.

Johnson is a good journalist - loves a story whether true or false - to sell papers. This is what he should return to as he does not have the right personality; morality; no sense of public duty; no sensible work ethic (dislikes the small print) to lead a Country.
Like a wounded, cornered animal, he is getting nasty.

It all makes my heart sink. So often we follow the US, and here we are in a Trumpian state, where morality and truth no longer matter.

Josieann

Maudi

Well the buck stops with Boris it's been said on these threads in the past because he's the PM, all the deaths from Covid etc are all his fault. Well perhaps the buck stops with Starmer because like it or not he was in charge of the CPS at the time.

I was just thinking the same Maudi. KS has spent the past few weeks saying Boris should be responsible for every little thing going on in No.10, so why shouldn't it be the same the other way round?

Surely you can both see the difference between someone who has thousands of people working for the organisation he heads and someone else who has 400 or 500 people working in the same building? If not, I suggest that you both might think a little more before you leap.

JenniferEccles

If Piers Corbyn was involved, the demonstration was obviously centred around the anti vaccination idiots, but of course the media will pounce on the odd ‘Jimmy Savile’ reference and blow it up out of all proportion.

Trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

As Jane 43 said, evidence has to be available at the time. Most of what we know now about the vile Savile was after his death, when so many victims felt able to speak. Some crimes cannot be brought to trial, even though " everyone knows " , due to insufficient evidence and victims reluctance - ask any police officer or lawyer. I know that there are countries where this is not the case, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Boz

Johnson is a good journalist - loves a story whether true or false - to sell papers. This is what he should return to as he does not have the right personality; morality; no sense of public duty; no sensible work ethic (dislikes the small print) to lead a Country.
Like a wounded, cornered animal, he is getting nasty.

He’s always been nasty. Even Conservative party members years ago told us the problem with the party was that it was run by second rate journalists. I wrote to Johnson and told him he should go back to writing about bendy bananas and other lies. But he learned from that, didn’t he, that he could write a lie and it would be imprinted on peoples consciousness and he could then tap into it at a later date. This is what he’s done with Keir.

good journalist and false stories are a contradiction.

Good journalists are Orla Guerin, Lise Doucet, Peter Oborne, Robert Moore etc. and the late Brian Hanrahan.

Johnson was a hack.

Some excellent contributions on James O’Brien. Lecturer on British and American politics talking about democracy or lack of it.

Learning quite a bit this morning.

Undoubtedly Johnson must go.

Eddie Mair, interviewing Johnson in 2013, tells him "you're a nasty piece of work". It was true then and now and he's never going to change.

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2013/mar/24/boris-johnson-accused-nasty-video

Whitewavemark2

Some excellent contributions on James O’Brien. Lecturer on British and American politics talking about democracy or lack of it.

Learning quite a bit this morning.

Undoubtedly Johnson must go.

On this we agree.

As a Conservative I cannot watch him bring the U.K. down any lower.

I am concerned at who will be his successor, and PM for the next two years. (Unless there is an early election)

The “spiffing up the wall” comment remains truly disgusting. It reminds us this PM has no regard for truth, compassion or integrity

From Sky News :
'Our words have consequences': Speaker of House of Commons links Johnson to mob that targeted Starmer
Mr Hoyle said he would be asking the Met Police to compile a security report on the incident yesterday, before going on to speak about the context in which it happened.
Referring to Boris Johnson's Savile comments in Parliament last week, he said: "Our words have consequences and we should always be mindful of that fact."

Apparently our great leader is to-day rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Who would want to be close to Johnson at the moment and be ever tainted?
As they say "Lie down with dirty dogs and you get fleas".

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Some excellent contributions on James O’Brien. Lecturer on British and American politics talking about democracy or lack of it.

Learning quite a bit this morning.

Undoubtedly Johnson must go.

On this we agree.

As a Conservative I cannot watch him bring the U.K. down any lower.

I am concerned at who will be his successor, and PM for the next two years. (Unless there is an early election)

I understand how you feel. I did a lot of cross party campaigning pre and post referendum and even then many Conservative part members were in despair at the direction the party was taking. So many good decent MPs have been cast aside in Johnson’s pursuit of power.

Archbishop of Canterbury
@JustinWelby
·
1h
When politicians are harassed and threatened it’s a threat not just to the MPs themselves, but to the health of our democracy. We must condemn it and stand united against it. I continue to pray for all who work in politics, and for a culture where we can learn to disagree well.

Still people here sticking obstinately to the 'Starmer should apologise' rubbish.

The initial failure to prosecute was because the victims wouldn't give evidence in court because they thought they were the only one affected. The police didn't let them know there were more. Would you have wanted to be the sole person to give evidence against such a prominent celebrity?

Starmer actually set up an inquiry into the whole affair and made big changes as the result of it (has the beloved Boris done anything about an inquiry into the whole covid fiasco that caused thousands of unnecessary deaths yet? ). He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS. He did that nearly ten years ago. So he has actually done something about it.

Is he expected to do it all over again because the ignorant won't look for the truth or take any notice of it when it is presented to them?

I thought I might have calmed down a bit by now. But reading some of what has been posted in the meantime has just set me off again.

Johnson’s denial of any link between his words and what happened to Starmer, is pure Trump.

maizieD I am with you in continued anger over all this. Isn't proving a nice diversion from the fact that the leader of the UK is currently under criminal investigation by the police! It also takes off the front-page the PM's disastrous statements yesterday in respect of helping cancer patients of which the first was introduced by NHS in 2019 when May was in power and the second is an NHS standard already in existence! More gaslighting - they think people in the UK won't spot they are being let down again!

a paragraph from Clare Foges in the Times;

Johnson, a lover of Shakespeare, would be wise to remember the line from Macbeth about the death of the Thane of Cawdor: “Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it.” The same might be said of political lives. Better a dignified steering of his own destiny than a protracted battle to cling on to power. One way allows at least the possibility of redemption in the public eye, the other does not.

Show some sense Mr. Johnson and just go.

Whitewavemark2

Johnson’s denial of any link between his words and what happened to Starmer, is pure Trump.

Yet again an example of his narcissistic personality.

Did anyone see the Social Dilemma about the power of social media and the press?

A Threat To Democracy

As the presidential election approaches, U.S. political campaigns and foreign actors are once again using social media to advance their messages. Orlowski says he feels afraid of political misinformation and concerned about “the breakdown of truth,” noting that it’s getting progressively harder for people who disagree with each other to have productive discussions.

This is where we're heading. Everything is picked up by the press and fed to the baying crowd who want to be heard. And who want to be on the right side.

I'm not sticking up for Boris here. He needs to go. However I wonder what the future holds when anything and everything gets ripped to pieces

Very interesting documentary if you get chance to see it. Those involved are the very people who have worked on all the platforms available to us today.

www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/18/social-dilemma-director

To prosecute someone, you need to have a certain minimum amount of evidence. If that were not so, people would end up in court just because some liar had falsely accused them out of sheer spite - and at the resulting trial the lack of evidence would mean they were acquitted.

When the CPO were considering whether Saville ought to stand trial on the evidence that they had at that time they only had two accusers - and neither of them were brave enough to stand up in court to repeat their accusations at a time when they would have been the only ones No-one else had provided any evidence. A trial without evidence is not a trial.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If the CPS had been equipped with a time machine, they could have boarded it after Saville's death and returned to the moment of that first consideration armed with all the stories that surfaced once the odious paedophile was safely out of circulation. They would then have had enough evidence to convict him several times over. Sadly, time has to be lived in one direction only.

Starmer actually set up an inquiry into the whole affair and made big changes as the result of it (has the beloved Boris done anything about an inquiry into the whole covid fiasco that caused thousands of unnecessary deaths yet? ). He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS. He did that nearly ten years ago. So he has actually done something about it. (MaizieD Tue 08-Feb-22 12:04:26)

In other words, Starmer has been held accountable. "He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS"

If Boris Johnson had done this - "partygate" would be over by now. The way to defend yourself is to be honest and open, admit mistakes if they were made, or - if you think they weren't, explain truthfully what happened. What Johnson has done is point his finger at another saying, "well, what about him. In other words he's used the technique of responding to difficult questions by making a counter-accusation. 'Whataboutism' - it's almost at playground level and is certainly not the way a mature individual in high office should conduct himself.