Gransnet forums

News & politics

Keir Starmer rescued by police

(298 Posts)
Nandalot Mon 07-Feb-22 19:18:14

Keir Starmer has to be rescued by police after being surrounded by an angry crowd who, misled by Johnson’s Commons statement, claimed he had helped a paedophile escape justice. It just shows how irresponsible, almost Trumpian, Johnson’s comment was.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/07/police-rescue-keir-starmer-after-protesters-surround-him-near-parliament

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 16:55:04

Maudi

Mud sticks and seems it's stuck on Starmer he will forever be tarnished right or not of being in charge of the CPS and letting Jimmy Saville off the hook to commit more obscene acts. Also the photo of Starmer and Rayner kneeling in their office to BLM didn't go down to well did it, well perhaps some of his supporters on here liked it, but I don't think the silent majority of Labour voters in the real did.

What the heck has Starmer's and Rayner's taking the knee got to do with Savile? It sounds like a a mud slinger desperately trying to find another cow pat to throw. Isn't this the kind of thing people have been objecting to, when they talk about the state of political criticism?

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 16:55:49

Josieann

I agree there is a toxicity pervading all sides of the House, although we did have a little lull during covid times when faced with greater issues. In the last few weeks a lot of the point scoring, pent up resentments, and reheated arguments have returned with a vengeance, and media outbursts are just adding to it. The way things are presented it is no wonder that a lot of people just see it as two sides both making fools of themselves, which is what several posters have tried to point out.
The only positive I can see is that we must be out of the covid tunnel for other matters to be taking precedence. People I have been with at work this afternoon are more interested in booking their summer holiday.

Try telling that to some of the posters on here.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 16:57:46

GrannyGravy13

Ramblingrose22

Not sure of the relevance of quoting McDonnell from 2018?

Thankfully he's of no influence or importance any more in the Labour Party and one of his best mates, Laura Pidcock, resigned recently from the National Executive Committee.

Someone once said that we only get the politicians we deserve. I hope it's not true and I am looking forward to the day when Bojo gets his come-uppance - whether it's when the police investigation is completed and he gets a Fixed Penalty Notice or fine, when the full Sue Gray report is published or when we know the May local election results.

The Tories don't - so far - seem to mind him bringing their party into disrepute but they won't allow him to continue if they think he'll lose the next general election for them.

I think the party definitely minds Mr. Johnson’s actions/ non-actions.

I hope that there are meetings and discussion going on behind doors regarding a plan of action and working on finding the next Conservative leader.

The Mr. McDonnell quote was just a reminder that this toxicity has been around for a few years, nothing new unfortunately.

Sorry! I don't get the point of it. Just because toxicity is nothing new, there's still no reason why the country's PM should add to it.

Dinahmo Tue 08-Feb-22 17:04:03

My OH has just told me that a reporter did a vox pop in a park in KS' constituency. Apparently he asked everyone in the park about the incident yesterday. Only 1 in 5 knew about it and most of those thought KS is at fault for not prosecuting Saville.

What hope is there for the country when people are unaware of the incident and that the majority of those that are favour Johnson.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 08-Feb-22 17:06:31

growstuff either you are misinterpreting my posts or deliberately ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly posted that I am not defending the PM’s accusations

Doodledog Tue 08-Feb-22 17:13:07

I can’t have been the only one watching it live on tv and noticed how Starmer ‘went pink’ when the camera panned to him. I think he was technically embarrassed because the jibe hit home. KS has a legal (some like the word forensic) mind. If Boris was wrong, why did KS not stand up and shout ‘SLANDER!’ at him?

That is reminiscent of the witch trial in Monty Python!

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 17:17:51

GrannyGravy13

growstuff either you are misinterpreting my posts or deliberately ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly posted that *I am not defending the PM’s accusations*

You seem to be misreading my posts too! Nowhere have I defended McDonnell, but two wrongs really don't make a right. IMO what McDonnell said was irrelevant to what Johnson did. Johnson is the PM and leader of the country. He sets the tone for political discourse.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 17:19:05

Dinahmo

My OH has just told me that a reporter did a vox pop in a park in KS' constituency. Apparently he asked everyone in the park about the incident yesterday. Only 1 in 5 knew about it and most of those thought KS is at fault for not prosecuting Saville.

What hope is there for the country when people are unaware of the incident and that the majority of those that are favour Johnson.

That doesn't surprise me. Johnson knew exactly what he was doing.

MaizieD Tue 08-Feb-22 17:23:08

My OH has just told me that a reporter did a vox pop in a park in KS' constituency. Apparently he asked everyone in the park about the incident yesterday. Only 1 in 5 knew about it and most of those thought KS is at fault for not prosecuting Saville.

That is what is really, really worrying. Johnson has brought this lie from the far right fringe (though, I have to say, it has been mentioned on this forum a few times on the last 2 years by some of our rightwingers) and has made it mainstream. I think it will stick to Starmer the way that the Iraq war sticks to Blair and affect Labour's chances at the next GE. Because, you can be sure that the tories will weaponise it.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 08-Feb-22 17:23:58

growstuff the first line of my post with the Mr. McDonnell quite said two wrongs do not make a right

He was calling for action towards opposition MPs.

The protesters who approached Mr. Starmer where accusing him of all sorts of things, the press has highlighted the Jimmy Saville ones, no doubt due to Mr. Johnson.

My point is that something needs to be done regarding the toxic nature of politics in the U.K.

Doodledog Tue 08-Feb-22 17:26:51

MaizieD

^My OH has just told me that a reporter did a vox pop in a park in KS' constituency. Apparently he asked everyone in the park about the incident yesterday. Only 1 in 5 knew about it and most of those thought KS is at fault for not prosecuting Saville.^

That is what is really, really worrying. Johnson has brought this lie from the far right fringe (though, I have to say, it has been mentioned on this forum a few times on the last 2 years by some of our rightwingers) and has made it mainstream. I think it will stick to Starmer the way that the Iraq war sticks to Blair and affect Labour's chances at the next GE. Because, you can be sure that the tories will weaponise it.

I agree that this is very worrying indeed. Propaganda is dangerous, and after decades of being told that educating people about how the media works is 'Mickey Mouse' there are far too many people who don't see it when it pokes them in the eye.

Iam64 Tue 08-Feb-22 17:29:09

MaizieD, you’re right the slur will be weaponised. Johnson knew exactly what he was doing.
Starmer has been accused of being boring, lawyerly, lacking passion yet he was ahead of Johnson on issues of trust. Johnson simplified the comparison with him being responsible for the drinking/rule breaking culture at number 10, with Starmer’s apology for failings in the CPS. Clever clever, he knew he was distorting and deflecting - it’s worked with some people.

MayBee70 Tue 08-Feb-22 17:29:34

So why does the fact that Johnson agreed to help a friend beat someone up doesn’t turn people against him? Why does he get away with doing such nasty stuff?

Galaxy Tue 08-Feb-22 17:43:10

People dont see him as an adult they see him as a child to be excused and indulged. It's clear in the language that is used about him.

varian Tue 08-Feb-22 17:51:17

Another habitual liar, Donald Trump, once said about his uncritical supporters that he could stand in the middle of New York and shoot someone and they'd still vote for him.

He incited an assault on the Capitol on 6th January last year. Why has he not been arrested yet?

Is Trump, like Johnson, just another nasty piece of work who can always get away with anything?

MaizieD Tue 08-Feb-22 18:16:14

This might be a bit cheering:

Savanta ComRes
@SavantaComRes
· 2h
Snap Poll

69% say PM responsible for LOTO being harassed
54% 2019 Con also say this
68% say he should publicly apologise to Starmer
68% say he should withdraw comments
64% say politics has gotten nastier in last 5 yrs

1,094 UK adults, 8 Feb 2022

twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1491068135793106944

MayBee70 Tue 08-Feb-22 18:36:22

Boris Johnson has declined to apologise for his language about Jo Cox and ducked a Commons debate on inflammatory rhetoric, instead attending a meeting of Tory MPs to say he will continue to use the phrase “surrender bill” to refer to the act passed to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

Johnson spoke at a meeting of the 1922 Committee of Conservative MPs the morning after being branded a disgrace for dismissing concerns about his inflammatory language in light of Cox’s murder by a far-right extremist.

In the Commons on Wednesday, he told one MP that her concerns about aggressive language fuelling violence were “humbug” and another that the best way to honour Cox was to “get Brexit done”.

Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
02:43
Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
The prime minister addressed some of the criticism, saying there was a need to moderate violent language on all sides of the debate. But he was reported to have told Tory MPs on Thursday that he would continue to use his language about the Benn Act (formally called the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) to stop a no-deal Brexit. He dubs it the “surrender bill” despite criticism that this paints his opponents in parliament as traitors guilty of a betrayal.

Johnson was met with shouts of “Will you apologise, prime minister?” from journalists as he left the meeting, but he walked away without commenting.

His senior adviser, Dominic Cummings, was shortly afterwards confronted on the parliamentary estate by the Labour MP Karl Turner, who said MPs including himself had received more death threats. Cummings responded: “Well, vote for a deal then.”

Advertisement

Johnson was even criticised by his own sister, Rachel, who told Sky: “I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against.

Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
01:11
Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
“I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said ‘Britain first’, of the far-right tendency, which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.

“My brother is using words like surrender and capitulation as if the people standing in the way of the blessed will of the people as defined by 17.4m votes in 2016 should be hung, drawn, quartered, tarred and feathered. I think that is highly reprehensible language to use.”

Tory MPs said the mood of Johnson’s meeting had been “largely supportive” but others sighed or raised their eyebrows when asked how he had performed.

Jo Cox, right, with her sister Kim Leadbeater in 2009.
Jo Cox's sister criticises Boris Johnson's Brexit rhetoric
Read more
Paul Scully, the deputy chairman of the Conservative party, said the prime minister acknowledged there had been “a lot of words said, a lot of attacks on female MPs and on members of the families of female politicians”.

“But I think there’s also a sense of conflation of those in the opposition, wrapping that up with the robust debate and the acknowledgment that the surrender act is a surrender act because it is literally surrendering power to the EU.”

Advertisement

He added: “At the end of the day the surrender act is literally a backbench MP who has written a letter to give to the UK prime minister, which gives the EU permission to tell us when we can leave the EU. By any dictionary definition this surrenders power to the EU.”

As Johnson addressed his backbenchers, the Labour MP Jess Phillips brought an urgent question to the Commons on the subject of inflammatory language.

Rather than appearing himself, Johnson sent the junior minister Kevin Foster, who is responsible for the constitution.

Jeremy Corbyn said Johnson “has not respected this house by attending today”.

“The prime minister’s language and demeanour yesterday was nothing short of disgraceful,” the Labour leader said. “Three years ago our colleague Jo Cox was murdered by a far-right activist shouting: ‘Britain First. This is for Britain.’

“The language that politicians use matters – it has real consequences. To dismiss concerns from honourable members about the death threats they receive, and to dismiss concerns that the language used by the prime minister is being repeated in those death threats, is reprehensible.”

He accused Johnson of having “sought to entrench divisions” instead of calming them down.

“Not only should the prime minister comply with the law, he should come to this house and apologise for his conduct yesterday, which fell below the standards expected by the people of this country,” he said.

Phillips asked for Johnson and his advisers to meet her and Cox’s family so they could explain their grief and concerns about inflammatory language in politics.

“The use of language yesterday and over the past few weeks such as the surrender bill, such as invoking the war, such as betrayal and treachery, it has clearly been tested, and workshopped and worked up and entirely designed to inflame hatred and division,” she said. “I get it, it works, it is working. It is not sincere, it is totally planned, it is completely and utterly a strategy designed by somebody to harm and cause hatred in our country.

“When I hear of my friend Jo Cox’s murder and the way it has made me and my colleagues feel, and feel scared, described as humbug, I actually don’t feel anger towards the prime minister, I feel pity for those of you who have to toe his line.

“The people opposite me know how appalling it was to describe the murder of my friend as mere humbug.”

Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
0
Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
Foster took a more conciliatory tone than Johnson, saying the murder of Cox was a “dreadful crime”, but he echoed the prime minister’s argument that delay over Brexit was causing tensions.

“The government is also considering what further steps are necessary to ensure the safety of parliamentarians and their staff,” he added. “Crucially this applies not only to the vicinities of parliament but also in constituencies and online.”

However, not all Tory MPs appeared to be intent on calming tensions. Sir Bernard Jenkin, a Eurosceptic backbencher, said MPs should not reference the murder of Cox to “try and make political points”.

MPs responded with shouts of outrageous when Jenkin said: “There is already a danger in these exchanges of it turning into a holier-than-thou competition.

“I think we should reflect on how much unhappiness and anxiety there is among members of the house, and that this is going to be expressed in various ways, and people are going to use robust and emotive language in order to express their views, and that is entirely understandable.

“Can I just make one request, that we no longer invoke the name of any person who has been the victim of attacks in order to try and make political points.”

Apologies for the long read but I’d forgotten this. Johnson has history…..

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 19:02:21

GrannyGravy13

growstuff the first line of my post with the Mr. McDonnell quite said two wrongs do not make a right

He was calling for action towards opposition MPs.

The protesters who approached Mr. Starmer where accusing him of all sorts of things, the press has highlighted the Jimmy Saville ones, no doubt due to Mr. Johnson.

My point is that something needs to be done regarding the toxic nature of politics in the U.K.

So why mention it, if it wasn't relevant?

There will be people less intelligent than you who will interpret it as "all politicians are just as bad/they're all the same".

And they're not!

JaneJudge Tue 08-Feb-22 19:58:24

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff either you are misinterpreting my posts or deliberately ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly posted that *I am not defending the PM’s accusations*

You seem to be misreading my posts too! Nowhere have I defended McDonnell, but two wrongs really don't make a right. IMO what McDonnell said was irrelevant to what Johnson did. Johnson is the PM and leader of the country. He sets the tone for political discourse.

quite!

It is absolutely disgusting how this is playing out. Johnson needs to go. The behaviours shown by the mob are just the beginning and it is all based on rhetoric and lies

GrannyGravy13 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:15:04

Would you like me to draw blood?

I am not defending the PM, I have said repeatedly that he should fall on his sword. I think he will wait until enough letters are submitted, as opposed to going of his own accord.

The above does not alter the fact that U.K. politics has become toxic, ALL parties need to take a hard look at how they present themselves and the language they use. If none of you can see this, well I give up…

JaneJudge Tue 08-Feb-22 20:21:53

you are quite right, it is about language used but I'm not sure Keir has been guilty of it

Casdon Tue 08-Feb-22 20:23:00

I understand where you’re coming from GrannyGravy13. Both the main parties have elements who are seemingly unable to behave professionally, and do things which tarnish the reputation of all politicians in the eyes of the public.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:26:26

Casdon

I understand where you’re coming from GrannyGravy13. Both the main parties have elements who are seemingly unable to behave professionally, and do things which tarnish the reputation of all politicians in the eyes of the public.

Thank you Casdon

Ramblingrose22 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:34:50

At present it is the leader of the Conservative party and those who defend him who are dragging our politics into the gutter.
Bojo is just another Trump, inciting morons who enjoy protesting to choose Starmer as a convenient target regardless of the hurt caused to the families of Savile's victims by using this basesless slur as one of his dead cats on the table.
How much lower can he and the Conservative party go....

GillT57 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:38:02

MayBee70

Boris Johnson has declined to apologise for his language about Jo Cox and ducked a Commons debate on inflammatory rhetoric, instead attending a meeting of Tory MPs to say he will continue to use the phrase “surrender bill” to refer to the act passed to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

Johnson spoke at a meeting of the 1922 Committee of Conservative MPs the morning after being branded a disgrace for dismissing concerns about his inflammatory language in light of Cox’s murder by a far-right extremist.

In the Commons on Wednesday, he told one MP that her concerns about aggressive language fuelling violence were “humbug” and another that the best way to honour Cox was to “get Brexit done”.

Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
02:43
Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
The prime minister addressed some of the criticism, saying there was a need to moderate violent language on all sides of the debate. But he was reported to have told Tory MPs on Thursday that he would continue to use his language about the Benn Act (formally called the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) to stop a no-deal Brexit. He dubs it the “surrender bill” despite criticism that this paints his opponents in parliament as traitors guilty of a betrayal.

Johnson was met with shouts of “Will you apologise, prime minister?” from journalists as he left the meeting, but he walked away without commenting.

His senior adviser, Dominic Cummings, was shortly afterwards confronted on the parliamentary estate by the Labour MP Karl Turner, who said MPs including himself had received more death threats. Cummings responded: “Well, vote for a deal then.”

Advertisement

Johnson was even criticised by his own sister, Rachel, who told Sky: “I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against.

Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
01:11
Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
“I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said ‘Britain first’, of the far-right tendency, which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.

“My brother is using words like surrender and capitulation as if the people standing in the way of the blessed will of the people as defined by 17.4m votes in 2016 should be hung, drawn, quartered, tarred and feathered. I think that is highly reprehensible language to use.”

Tory MPs said the mood of Johnson’s meeting had been “largely supportive” but others sighed or raised their eyebrows when asked how he had performed.

Jo Cox, right, with her sister Kim Leadbeater in 2009.
Jo Cox's sister criticises Boris Johnson's Brexit rhetoric
Read more
Paul Scully, the deputy chairman of the Conservative party, said the prime minister acknowledged there had been “a lot of words said, a lot of attacks on female MPs and on members of the families of female politicians”.

“But I think there’s also a sense of conflation of those in the opposition, wrapping that up with the robust debate and the acknowledgment that the surrender act is a surrender act because it is literally surrendering power to the EU.”

Advertisement

He added: “At the end of the day the surrender act is literally a backbench MP who has written a letter to give to the UK prime minister, which gives the EU permission to tell us when we can leave the EU. By any dictionary definition this surrenders power to the EU.”

As Johnson addressed his backbenchers, the Labour MP Jess Phillips brought an urgent question to the Commons on the subject of inflammatory language.

Rather than appearing himself, Johnson sent the junior minister Kevin Foster, who is responsible for the constitution.

Jeremy Corbyn said Johnson “has not respected this house by attending today”.

“The prime minister’s language and demeanour yesterday was nothing short of disgraceful,” the Labour leader said. “Three years ago our colleague Jo Cox was murdered by a far-right activist shouting: ‘Britain First. This is for Britain.’

“The language that politicians use matters – it has real consequences. To dismiss concerns from honourable members about the death threats they receive, and to dismiss concerns that the language used by the prime minister is being repeated in those death threats, is reprehensible.”

He accused Johnson of having “sought to entrench divisions” instead of calming them down.

“Not only should the prime minister comply with the law, he should come to this house and apologise for his conduct yesterday, which fell below the standards expected by the people of this country,” he said.

Phillips asked for Johnson and his advisers to meet her and Cox’s family so they could explain their grief and concerns about inflammatory language in politics.

“The use of language yesterday and over the past few weeks such as the surrender bill, such as invoking the war, such as betrayal and treachery, it has clearly been tested, and workshopped and worked up and entirely designed to inflame hatred and division,” she said. “I get it, it works, it is working. It is not sincere, it is totally planned, it is completely and utterly a strategy designed by somebody to harm and cause hatred in our country.

“When I hear of my friend Jo Cox’s murder and the way it has made me and my colleagues feel, and feel scared, described as humbug, I actually don’t feel anger towards the prime minister, I feel pity for those of you who have to toe his line.

“The people opposite me know how appalling it was to describe the murder of my friend as mere humbug.”

Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
0
Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
Foster took a more conciliatory tone than Johnson, saying the murder of Cox was a “dreadful crime”, but he echoed the prime minister’s argument that delay over Brexit was causing tensions.

“The government is also considering what further steps are necessary to ensure the safety of parliamentarians and their staff,” he added. “Crucially this applies not only to the vicinities of parliament but also in constituencies and online.”

However, not all Tory MPs appeared to be intent on calming tensions. Sir Bernard Jenkin, a Eurosceptic backbencher, said MPs should not reference the murder of Cox to “try and make political points”.

MPs responded with shouts of outrageous when Jenkin said: “There is already a danger in these exchanges of it turning into a holier-than-thou competition.

“I think we should reflect on how much unhappiness and anxiety there is among members of the house, and that this is going to be expressed in various ways, and people are going to use robust and emotive language in order to express their views, and that is entirely understandable.

“Can I just make one request, that we no longer invoke the name of any person who has been the victim of attacks in order to try and make political points.”

Apologies for the long read but I’d forgotten this. Johnson has history…..

I am ashamed to say that Bernard Jenkins is my MP but proud to say that I didn't put him there with my vote.