Do you shop at M&S? Please could you stop?

On a more general level, why does the OP expect me to change my shopping habits to support her pet cause?

This is not a comment on the situation in Ukraine; it’s simply an observation that opinionated people seem to think they have a right to tell others what they should think and how they should behave. I prefer to decide such things for for myself.

I won’t be boycotting M&S because I think, as has been explained, they are not trading in Russia, and are raising thousands for Ukraine appeals and have also donated £20,000 winter clothing.
I wonder if many major companies are donating as much?

geekesse, I didn't think it read that way at all - just trisher publicising the situation, alerting us to the problem etc. I rarely shop there anyway - so have no problem avoiding doing so - until they clearly have no dealings with Russia.

geekesse

On a more general level, why does the OP expect me to change my shopping habits to support her pet cause?

This is not a comment on the situation in Ukraine; it’s simply an observation that opinionated people seem to think they have a right to tell others what they should think and how they should behave. I prefer to decide such things for for myself.

Perhaps because 5 Ukrainian MPs asked the British to do something. It's fine to refuse but try not to belittle the cause which isn't mine but Ukrain's.

until they clearly have no dealings with Russia.

But they have no dealings with Russia.

All those talking about erring on the side of caution, etc. Why don't you believe the many, many posts on here that explain that M&S are doing the right thing?

By erring on the side of caution you are damaging the business of a company that has done all it can to support Ukraine. It's not a good thing that you are doing.

Farzanah

I won’t be boycotting M&S because I think, as has been explained, they are not trading in Russia, and are raising thousands for Ukraine appeals and have also donated £20,000 winter clothing.
I wonder if many major companies are donating as much?

Burger King have given more to the UNCHR 1 million dollars approx £760000 as compared with M&S £500,000 and have also promised any profits made to them. They've also given meal vouchers to the value $2million to NGOs hosting refugees.
Which makes £20,000 look a little really.

trisher

geekesse

On a more general level, why does the OP expect me to change my shopping habits to support her pet cause?

This is not a comment on the situation in Ukraine; it’s simply an observation that opinionated people seem to think they have a right to tell others what they should think and how they should behave. I prefer to decide such things for for myself.

Perhaps because 5 Ukrainian MPs asked the British to do something. It's fine to refuse but try not to belittle the cause which isn't mine but Ukrain's.

There were 4 of them. Is there anything about this story that you are reporting accurately?

volver, 'damaging the business' - hardly a difference with my little budget. I simply don't believe that they're 'doing all they can'. They have done a lot - but just to impress us, to promote and protect their business (obviously). They could do more and should have done it much earlier.

Hetty58

volver, 'damaging the business' - hardly a difference with my little budget. I simply don't believe that they're 'doing all they can'. They have done a lot - but just to impress us, to promote and protect their business (obviously). They could do more and should have done it much earlier.

Sorry Hetty58. That's just ridiculous. Your little budget is going to be part of a larger, ill thought out boycott.

What else should they do?

Arrange an assassination attempt on Putin?

You can boycott M&S or not according to what you believe. However, anybody in business in Russia will be able to use the trademarks or copyright of anybody because Putin has said that it is ok to do so because of unfriendly behaviour of the countries that own them. So, even if M&S stop all supplies, don't send raw materials and do all the right things according to those who think they are doing the wrong things, little will change. M&S will still be a visible presence in Russia.

volver

trisher

geekesse

On a more general level, why does the OP expect me to change my shopping habits to support her pet cause?

This is not a comment on the situation in Ukraine; it’s simply an observation that opinionated people seem to think they have a right to tell others what they should think and how they should behave. I prefer to decide such things for for myself.

Perhaps because 5 Ukrainian MPs asked the British to do something. It's fine to refuse but try not to belittle the cause which isn't mine but Ukrain's.

There were 4 of them. Is there anything about this story that you are reporting accurately?

Apologies I didn't check the names and added the 4 who went to Downing street to the one on QT. You are absolutely right there were four. Given special permission to leave their country to travel here to say what is happening and ask for our help. Men cannot leave. But I wonder does the number really matter? You can listen to them or not. It's entirely your choice. If there were 60 would you do as they asked then?

Well I'm just casting doubt on whether any fact in anything you've said is true. That's it, really. Accuracy doesn't seem to be a huge feature in your assertions.

icanhandthemback makes an excellent point.

I doubt that M & S are sending raw materials to Russia. They certainly don't send milk/cream and eggs to the French company to make the egg custard tarts.

Dinahmo, no - just enabling their franchises to continue trading - by hiding behind 'legal issues'. I smell a rat.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks any company can compel Russia to comply with any law or convention. Don't the war crimes currently being brazenly carried out in Ukraine give any clue? So M&S say to the franchisees 'stop trading on our name' Does anybody truly believe they'll say 'sorry, yes of course' ? If so I've several historic UK sites I can sell you......

If there were to be a mass boycott of M & S or any other U.K. store on the premise that it is still trading in Russia I do hope those folks who boycott will donate that money to the poor souls when they lose their jobs.

As icanhandthemback has posted Vladimir Putin has said that Russia will no longer be abiding by Foreign Trade Mark laws, and that they can continue to be used in Russia despite being withdrawn by the holder of the trademark.

trisher what on earth do you expect M & S and other companies caught in this situation entirely of President Putin’s making to do?

Hetty58

Dinahmo, no - just enabling their franchises to continue trading - by hiding behind 'legal issues'. I smell a rat.

Have you read this entire thread and still can't understand that M & S are completely unable to prevent these businesses from trading because they have nothing to do with them apart from the name.

I'll just repost what Dinahmo said earlier after explaining how franchising works, because it is a point I was going to make, too.

Trisher Seeing as how you have not fully understood the nature of this business, how do you expect 5 Ukranian MPs to understand how franchises work. I wonder whether many English MPs understand. Probably not many

trisher I can understand your motivation in encouraging support for Ukraine at this awful time, but I think that trying to destroy the business of a major British retailer, which employs thousand of people, is necessarily the best way to go.
As others have pointed out they have done what they are able but franchises are out of their control.
They will not be profiting from franchises, and have stopped supplying them.
It is also disingenuous to report that M&S have only given £500,000 because they reported double this amount donating to both UNHCR and UNICEF and are continuing to give.
As I understand it it has been reported that BK cannot close it franchises in Russia because Putin has decreed they should remain open under BK name.

GG13
trisher what on earth do you expect M & S and other companies caught in this situation entirely of President Putin’s making to do.
Evidently, stop trading in the UK as an useless gesture of solidarity with Ukraine.
(*Stop trading*, meaning the loss of jobs and livelihoods to UK workers because the stores have been boycotted and are no longer viable). Mr Putin, if he is at all interested, would undoubtedly be delighted to know of any extra impact his war was having.
M&S have done what they can, the reason why they cannot control their franchises has been explained.

Farzanah

trisher I can understand your motivation in encouraging support for Ukraine at this awful time, but I think that trying to destroy the business of a major British retailer, which employs thousand of people, is necessarily the best way to go.
As others have pointed out they have done what they are able but franchises are out of their control.
They will not be profiting from franchises, and have stopped supplying them.
It is also disingenuous to report that M&S have only given £500,000 because they reported double this amount donating to both UNHCR and UNICEF and are continuing to give.
As I understand it it has been reported that BK cannot close it franchises in Russia because Putin has decreed they should remain open under BK name.

BK franchises are remaining open but BK are donating any profits made to UNCHR. And withdrawing from the financial commitment.
Do we doubt that M&S receive money from their franchise agreement? Franchises are seldom a complete sell out - "you give us x amount and we'll give you our name" and usually an arrangement which is paid for with regular financial commitment "You give us x amount now and x amount in future years"
Quote from the grocer about M&S support
“We are donating £500,000 to the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR). We are donating 20,000 items of winter clothing that families need,”

^

trisher M & S have already donated 1.5 million to UNHCR
It’s all on line if you have a good look as opposed to a I have already made up my mind look,

Did you read my post yesterday that explained how BK's trading arrangements Russia have been fundamentally different than M&S's?

I also explained how any future income M&S might be entitled to, (even if they take that remuneration, which I think is unlikely) will probably be sacrificed in their donations to Ukraine?

Any comment on the M&S sponsorship of the Concert for Ukraine?

A mass boycott of M+S would have huge repercussions on jobs in the UK. I cannot see how the failure of M+S in the UK plus the loss of thousands of British jobs in any way helps Ukraine. M+S are doing what they can to support Ukraine.

volver

Did you read my post yesterday that explained how BK's trading arrangements Russia have been fundamentally different than M&S's?

I also explained how any future income M&S might be entitled to, (even if they take that remuneration, which I think is unlikely) will probably be sacrificed in their donations to Ukraine?

Any comment on the M&S sponsorship of the Concert for Ukraine?

I think those of us who can see the whole picture are banging our heads against the proverbial brick wall…

volver

Did you read my post yesterday that explained how BK's trading arrangements Russia have been fundamentally different than M&S's?

I also explained how any future income M&S might be entitled to, (even if they take that remuneration, which I think is unlikely) will probably be sacrificed in their donations to Ukraine?

Any comment on the M&S sponsorship of the Concert for Ukraine?

Yes what I fail to understand is why you feel the need to constantly come onto this thread and try to denigrate me personally. By all means take no notice of the requests of the Ukranian MPs but your constant posting on something you have no intention of being involved in just makes me wonder why you are so against this action.
Let's not forget for M&S that all donations and support are of course tax deductible.