I think this will happen more and more

Rosie51

volver

I'd not be lecturing people while admitting I knew absolutely nothing about it.

Asking questions and getting clarification is not my definition of "lecturing". But heigh ho.

Are you planning at any point to answer the questions put to you? I answered yours about where the boxer should compete. You've chosen not to answer when I asked your question of you. Seems a bit rude, unless you actually didn't expect others to answer.

Why do you think Manuel shouldn't be fighting women, but Fallon Fox (a man) should be? Wee bit of an assumption there.

Where do I think Manuel should compete?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking questions about it. But what I get back is accusations that I should know, because I'm a scientist. But then applying the logic of this debate, which says that people can’t change sex, Manuel is female. So when a poster says sport should be segregated by sex, that implies Manuel should fight as a female. But then someone says Manual can fight as a man if s/he wants. But men can’t choose to fight as females. So its nothing to do with sex, is it? Its to do with physical attributes. Then testosterone gets in on the act. Changes everything we've talked about above, overrides sex.

So it would be really nice if people who have really strong views on this took some time to think about what they were saying and why other people think its a bl**dy minefield.

Galaxy

Thanks for showing us an article about a transmen volver. Do you think we havent seen a transman before. I think sport should be segregated by sex. How else do you poropose to segregate it.

Depends what the ‘sex’ is doesn’t it ? I personally think the only fair thing should be a separate category for transgender folk. How can it possibly be fair for a biological man to compete against a biological woman?

volver

^I'd not be lecturing people while admitting I knew absolutely nothing about it.^

Asking questions and getting clarification is not my definition of "lecturing". But heigh ho.

Are you planning at any point to answer the questions put to you? I answered yours about where the boxer should compete. You've chosen not to answer when I asked your question of you. Seems a bit rude, unless you actually didn't expect others to answer.

Artificial hormones and drugs are banned by all professional sports bodies.

So I assume that any trans taking hormones drugs should be banned from competitions?

I can only assume that Lia is not taking any hormones/drugs to aid their transition and is only ID’ing as female in order to be No.1 as a male swimmer Lia (William) was approx 472

I'd not be lecturing people while admitting I knew absolutely nothing about it.

Asking questions and getting clarification is not my definition of "lecturing". But heigh ho.

Galaxy

I can only go by what you say on here. It was sonething along the lines of dont give drugs to children. I am paraphrasing.

If by paraphrasing you mean saying something I never wrote or meant, then yes, you're paraphrasing.

And I'm definitely not your brother. I'm happy to tell you that we are probably not related at all.

GrannyGravy13

Personally I think that there should be transgender categories in all single sex sports.

Me too, but if asked about the transman (female) competing in a male boxing contest I would say no in exactly the same way as I would say no to males competing in female competitions.

volver

Rosie51

volver

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

I'd have thought the scientist in you would actually understand the bit about the testosterone, but there you go I overestimated.
Are you aware of the influence of a male puberty that cannot be undone by a bit of testosterone reduction? The heart doesn't shrink, nor the lungs lose capacity. Skeletal shape doesn't change, nor bones lose their density or length. There's tons on the internet if you'd like to educate yourself.

I dropped biology before O-Grade.

I can explain astrophysics and quantum mechanics to you though, if you like.

No thanks, I have a son can do that in the unlikely event I want such information. Of course if I wanted to post on a thread dealing with that subject matter I'd not be lecturing people while admitting I knew absolutely nothing about it.
I don't think O-Grade biology is actually necessary to educate yourself on the difference between the effects of male and female puberties on the body. Any reasonably intelligent person will be able to understand.

Still you avoid answering any questions while asking others to give an answer.

It was in the midst of a fair bit of sarcasm so you may not have been being serious.

I can only go by what you say on here. It was sonething along the lines of dont give drugs to children. I am paraphrasing.

Bloody hell I hope you arent my brother. Hes a scientist and you have the same turn of phrase. That last sentence made me smile.

volver by criticising others, you give us a good idea of what you think.

Your position on treatment for children

What's my position on the treatment of children Galaxy? I haven't worked out any such thing so maybe you can help me understand what it is that I think? Tell me what my opinion is, that kind of thing?

Rosie51

volver

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

I'd have thought the scientist in you would actually understand the bit about the testosterone, but there you go I overestimated.
Are you aware of the influence of a male puberty that cannot be undone by a bit of testosterone reduction? The heart doesn't shrink, nor the lungs lose capacity. Skeletal shape doesn't change, nor bones lose their density or length. There's tons on the internet if you'd like to educate yourself.

I dropped biology before O-Grade.

I can explain astrophysics and quantum mechanics to you though, if you like.

Dear god my typing.

Galaxy

Also presumbably by that argument you would place transmen in male prisons. The last time I checked there were no transmen in male prisons, presumably because of the risk level, although offending pattern difference between sexes may also play a part.

You presume a lot, don't you Galaxy? You presume to know what I believe, when I haven't expressed any such idea on this or any other thread. Making assumptions about what I think. That's very enlightened of you.

I have just said I think sport should be segregated by sex, other people think differently. Your position on treatment for children is the complete opposite of most people on the 'opposing' side of the argument. People hold different views. Your view on medical treatment of gender dysphoric children isnt invalid because other oeopke would argue you are causing trans children harm with that apptoach

volver

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

I'd have thought the scientist in you would actually understand the bit about the testosterone, but there you go I overestimated.
Are you aware of the influence of a male puberty that cannot be undone by a bit of testosterone reduction? The heart doesn't shrink, nor the lungs lose capacity. Skeletal shape doesn't change, nor bones lose their density or length. There's tons on the internet if you'd like to educate yourself.

Also presumbably by that argument you would place transmen in male prisons. The last time I checked there were no transmen in male prisons, presumably because of the risk level, although offending pattern difference between sexes may also play a part.

Right then. So it's nothing to do with Manuel 's sex, it's to do with the drugs Manuel has taken.

They cant fight as females because of the testosterone. The same as if I was taking testerone I wouldnt be allowed to compete.
I personally think we need to stop pretending that people can change sex.

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

volver

Interested to know where we think this boxer should complete.

www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

Well I think he should box against males if he wishes and they agree. He shouldn't box against women because that would be cheating by virtue of the testosterone he takes which no female opponent would be permitted.

Where do you think he should compete?

Do you think we are some sort of hive mind volver?

Transmen cant compete against women as far as I can remember because of the rules around testosterone.
You would be wrong about what most gender critical feminists would think about transmen, so for example there are no transmen placed in males prisons, and I and the GC feminists I know would be horrified at the idea that they should.
GC feminist have argued for transgender spaces for years.