Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

Whoo is to say if a trans woman is headlining an event, she wasn't held up and put there by other women.

Especially women who want to celebrate other women in the face of the current climate.

VioletSky

If you need to understand how being trans inclusive supports all women

www.hrc.org/resources/5-things-to-know-to-make-your-feminism-trans-inclusive

Except for the ones who need refuges where there are no males, or who compete in all-women sports categories, or who have to describe their rape by someone with fully operational male genitalia in terms of "Then she . . "

I wonder which section of society will be impacted most by losing scholarships by having to compete against men. Not rich women is my guess.

There will always be excuses not to accept trans women as women.

The Equality Act already protects refuges.

Courts are down to how the judge interprets trans inclusive policy. No one would be forced to say "she" though that's illogical. They and them exist.

Sports are something that will need adjustment so that everyone may compete fairly.

Are they really reason enough to say trans women aren't women?

I don't believe so

So explain equality. I saw your answers to another poster. Your equality consisted of giving trans rights which negated the rights of women. That’s not equality.
Well it could be called Robin Hood equality I suppose.

Its not excuses its reality.

Mollygo

I'm not sure if you mean me again

That's not true if you do mean me

Trans people already had rights and were using facilities according to gender identity

The Equality Act just filled the hole where gender reassignment needed to be a protected characteristic to make it unlawful to discriminate

I don't believe in taking any rights from anyone to give anyone else more or less rights

That's silly and unnecessary and not feminist

I wonder which section of society will be impacted most by losing scholarships by having to compete against men. Not rich women is my guess.

Agreed, Galaxy.

It's not as though women are in a place of advantage in society. Although some are more advantaged than some men, as a group we are far from being so. Events, initiatives and anything that is organised for women (particularly if it has public funding) is done to try to equalise things, and the minute they become open to all, that equalisation stops in its tracks.

When you accept trans women as women and the fact that trans men actually do exist and balance the scale, that sort of thinking is not necessary

But we dont think trans women are women VS. Thats sort of the whole basis of the argument.

How does the existence of transmen help the women who lost to a man in sport .

That's why intersectional femism is different though right and why those of us who believe in it differentiate ourselves

We can never, and will never, have total equality.

I'm a "sometimes" wheelchair user. During those times, I don't have equality with anyone able bodied, regardless of what they are or choose to identify with.

I can't access various places. Centuries old buildings and castles don't have lifts, they have stairs (for one example).

So, there are only two options to giving me equality: Mangle buildings to put modern lifts in, or close them to all, so that we are all equal.

Or, I can just accept that in some things I can't be equal nowadays, and jog on with life. ?

People can never all be equal, it's just a fact.

Nice dream, but unrealistic.

I don't believe in taking any rights from anyone to give anyone else more or less rights! ????
I wonder why you thought I meant you?

Well if you didn't mean me Mollygo who were you asking, then perhaps they can answer for you

I don't believe in taking any rights from anyone to give anyone else more or less rights!
No, I agree. Sometimes it's inevitable that to be fair to one group another has to give up some of its privilege (eg workers getting minimum wage might cut into profits) but that's only conscionable when there is a disparity between the groups and the one giving way is the one with the privilege.

When you are talking about taking rights from women to give them to men (however they identify) it is a different story, and is (IMO) entirely incompatible with feminism.

Off to spend mothers day with my intersectional children lol

Galaxy

How does the existence of transmen help the women who lost to a man in sport .

It doesn’t, Galaxy, but read the comments.
1. Intersectional feminists aren’t there to support women, but,
2. If they say a man can be an AHF, which is nonsense scientifically, they can say
We know women are AHF. We don’t have to mess with dictionary definitions to make what we say true, it just is.
If you say males can be women, they can say they aren’t cheating in women’s competition.

Posted to early but it still makes more sense than saying makes can be females.

I find it extraordinary that people seem to think that it's fair for sports women to compete against men who "identify" as women. Also is that trans women still in charge of the rape Centre in Edinburgh?

What a load of old cod VS. The only intersectional things I know or care about are peonies.

Yes, I believe so, grannysyb.

It can't be fair for men to compete against women, and IMO the only reason that people can possibly support it is because they see women as irrelevant. Their training, work, hopes and dreams count for nothing, and in the fullness of time, when all sports, workplaces and Arts are dominated by male-bodied people, women will be back in the kitchen where they belong.

Doodledog

Yes, I believe so, grannysyb.

It can't be fair for men to compete against women, and IMO the only reason that people can possibly support it is because they see women as irrelevant. Their training, work, hopes and dreams count for nothing, and in the fullness of time, when all sports, workplaces and Arts are dominated by male-bodied people, women will be back in the kitchen where they belong.

What puzzles me DD is that some females still, after all the work put in by females. want to be subservient to males. E.g. Feminist opinion
Males want to win races? Fine let them compete against each other. It will give their win real value.
Intersectional feminists (as portrayed on GN, I’m sorry if we do not get a proper representation them here. )
Males want to win ?‍♀️?. We must do all we can to allow them to win. Let’s say it’s OK for them to compete against females.

Re your last sentence: I won’t live for ever. Neither will the ifs we hear from on here. They will be dead and gone by the time that happens and won’t care about females’ rights any more than they appear to do now.

I accept that there are trans women but don't, and never will accept they are women because they aren't.

Clearly there are some who identify as intersectional feminists who accept trans women are women but I haven't seen anything to support a claim that all intersectional feminists do so.

I don't identify as an intersectional feminist, but as a feminist I am intersectional and don't feel the need to prefix my feminist status.

Those who do not accept trans women as women don't need any excuses for doing so because it's not possible to change sex.

No one would be forced to say "she" though that's illogical. They and them exist.

Wrong. <sigh>

UK — London, England. In March 2019, a new edition of the Equal Treatment Bench Book (ETBB) 2018 was released. The revised edition states that the court should “recognise a person’s gender identity and their present name for nearly all court and tribunal purposes, regardless of whether they have obtained legal recognition of their gender by way of a Gender Recognition Certificate.”

However, in April 2018, prior to the new edition of the ETBB, a judged warned a female victim giving evidence that she should refer to her male attacker as “she”, because “(t)he defendant wished to be referred to as a woman”. The defendant, Tara Wolf (né Flik Wood) was found guilty of assaulting Maria Maclachlan and fined £150. Judge Kenneth Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, declaring, “It was notable that when I asked Ms Maclachlan to refer to Ms Wolf as ‘she’, she did so with bad grace – having asked her to do so she continued to refer to Ms Wolf as ‘he’ and ‘him'”.