Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

Ms Emily Bridges, a former male cycling champion, now identifies as a woman and is going to be allowed to compete in the British Female Cycling Team.

How do all those supporting TWAW think your sisters (natal born) will feel when they lose their place after years and years of training? Where are your feminist solidarity views?

It's shameful and is orchestrated cheating.

It will be interesting to see whether, when competing against women, they will be able to improve from the position of 0 points and placed 0, in their last ranked race; Foreign National Dorpenomloop Rucphen (Elite Men) GG13. What are the odds?

I do not think womens sport should be for failed/failing male athletes.

Seriously folks, do these men competing in women’s sport have no human decency. Answer - no, they do not

I’m just watching Mark, a triple amputee who has got back up and carried on living. Now that’s a winner a male to be proud of not one who has to cheat by competing against females to succeed.

Had a conversation about trans women with my neighbour, who doesn't believe anyone can change sex. Couldn't help laughing when he made the very unPC comment "dogs are either male or female and a male dog remains a male dog even when you cut his balls off"

A down-to-earth comment by a man-in-the-street! (or over the fence)

And how right he is!

Gagajo
The point of this thread, therefore, is to show, publically, that despite the orchestrated attacks from gender criticial feminists, that there are still a good number of us that do not take that position.

What is the evidence that the 'attacks' you perceive were orchestrated?

I would say that both groups have had their say and I wonder you say what you say simply because the majority of women - on GN and in the wider world - do not agree with you.

Meanwhile please produc ethe evidence for orchastration.

GrannyGravy13

Ms Emily Bridges, a former male cycling champion, now identifies as a woman and is going to be allowed to compete in the British Female Cycling Team.

How do all those supporting TWAW think your sisters (natal born) will feel when they lose their place after years and years of training? Where are your feminist solidarity views?

Has Emily Bridges undergone a surgical sex change and further assisted by oestrogen etc?

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Ms Emily Bridges, a former male cycling champion, now identifies as a woman and is going to be allowed to compete in the British Female Cycling Team.

How do all those supporting TWAW think your sisters (natal born) will feel when they lose their place after years and years of training? Where are your feminist solidarity views?

Has Emily Bridges undergone a surgical sex change and further assisted by oestrogen etc?

Ms. Bridges has/is taking oestrogen, they competed in a mans cycling event last month and achieved Bronze.

I cannot find any details on surgery.

No orchestrated attacks, and very few real gender critical feminists, just a lot of individual comments from a majority of largely very unpolitical (in the most general sense) ordinary female women who can see the wood for the trees.

No attacks on trans people, just pointing out that among them there are some male-born trans individuals who are taking advantage of the legal protection of trans women to increase their dominance over women in general.

No doubt in time there will be adjustments to definitions and legalities to cover the loopholes which allow this, but unless the existence of those loopholes is pointed out and brought to the attention of lawmakers they may not be plugged.

At the moment there is a pendulum swing in some quarters in favour of transindividuals, which will probably settle into neutrality eventually. Meanwhile, silencing debate on those loopholes could potentially mean that they were not plugged, and the unfairness in matters like sport, refuges and so on could go on for longer and cause resentment against transindividuals in general.. Good fences make good neighbours. Discussion is always good.

This is interesting

?

I have just been reading an article by an Australian sociologist, who says that blanket registration over a trans person to participate in sport will not hold up scientifically.

As far as I understand at the moment it is a required level of testosterone that must stay at or below that level for a year, before they can be accepted as suitable for taking part in their chosen sport as say a female.

However, this regulation does not seem to take into account the advantage these athletes gained before their sex change, like height, muscle etc, as I’m not clear that any of that is reversed.

That, therefore does not seem fair practice, and I couldn’t support such participation.

Whitewavemark2

I have just been reading an article by an Australian sociologist, who says that blanket registration over a trans person to participate in sport will not hold up scientifically.

As far as I understand at the moment it is a required level of testosterone that must stay at or below that level for a year, before they can be accepted as suitable for taking part in their chosen sport as say a female.

However, this regulation does not seem to take into account the advantage these athletes gained before their sex change, like height, muscle etc, as I’m not clear that any of that is reversed.

The restrictions on the natural level of testosterone in women has no scientific basis either. There is no evidence that naturally occurring testosterone has any effect on performance, but science has never bothered the sports officials.
The permitted level was lowered in 2019 for women.

Whitewavemark2

That, therefore does not seem fair practice, and I couldn’t support such participation.

Funnily enough, and with slightly more proof than offered to the contrary, most trans agree that it is cheating.

trisher

Whitewavemark2

I have just been reading an article by an Australian sociologist, who says that blanket registration over a trans person to participate in sport will not hold up scientifically.

As far as I understand at the moment it is a required level of testosterone that must stay at or below that level for a year, before they can be accepted as suitable for taking part in their chosen sport as say a female.

However, this regulation does not seem to take into account the advantage these athletes gained before their sex change, like height, muscle etc, as I’m not clear that any of that is reversed.

The restrictions on the natural level of testosterone in women has no scientific basis either. There is no evidence that naturally occurring testosterone has any effect on performance, but science has never bothered the sports officials.
The permitted level was lowered in 2019 for women.

But I’m arguing against that as a measure.

However no one disagrees that testosterone, builds a taller and bigger body with larger lungs heart etc.

Those people who acquired all these advantages before their sex change are taking part fairly in competition.

Unfairly that should read.

Whitewavemark2 says this on page 3 of this thread :

By the time the child is at school it is entirely established in its gender role.

That seems a very depressing thought to me.
What happened to "anyone can have whatever interests teyat want, dress how they choose etc"?

I know that many children are encouraged to fit stereotypes and I'm sure that this is behind many of the claims that a child is 'trans'.
The limited thinking of adults leads to those adults deciding that a child is 'trans' because they don't fit the desired stereotypes.

Whitewavemark2

So the young male, who at pre-puberty is uncomfortable in his assigned gender role.

My question is, what is pushing him to try to change his gender.

Is it simply a rejection of his gender or is it something in his biology?

Now I am stuck. As I don’t know. It makes a huge difference in the answer to this as one is a preference and the other is predetermined I think.

Do you mean "What is pushing him to try to change his sex?" ?

He can change his gender by simply behaving & presenting himself in non-stereotypical ways.
He can't change his sex but many are encouraged to try to resemble the opposite sex.

From the Debbie Hayton article posted by Blossoming on page 6 :

"it seems that Johnson realises that voters may also realise what is really going on here."

Indeed.
I have heard women say they may have no option but to vote Tory because the other parties refuse to recognise what a woman is.

Those women may not follow through and actually vote Tory but it's a measure of their desperation that it is being seriously considered by those who have never before in their lives thought of it as a possibility.

The limited thinking of adults leads to those adults deciding that a child is 'trans' because they don't fit the desired stereotypes.
I think that this is true, and I think it is the limited thinking of adults that leads to the belief that someone is 'in the wrong body'. If we accept that everyone is in the right body, but that behaviour doesn't have to be stereotyped by sex I think that a lot of problems would be solved - not 'just' for women (as though we don't matter), but for all concerned.

*I have heard women say they may have no option but to vote Tory because the other parties refuse to recognise what a woman is. Those women may not follow through and actually vote Tory but it's a measure of their desperation that it is being seriously considered by those who have never before in their lives thought of it as a possibility.'
I can't vote Tory, but I am struggling to decide what to do. I am still in the Labour Party, but if I can't vote for them when the GE comes, I will have to resign, and I don't know who to vote for. I can't vote LibDem either for strongly-held political reasons, and there are no sensible Independents where I am. It's a real dilemma, and I'm not even a floating voter - I'm dyed in the wool Labour. Starmer needs to get a handle on this, and soon.