Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

What will happen to that theory, if trans people still want to transition? If they still want SRS? Because i don't hear trans people stating that opinion.

Far North I know a few women who are saying they would hold their nose and vote Conservative over this issue. Personally I just feel politically homeless now. It may be that for the first time since I was eligible to vote I won't. I've voted every single election, and the referendum, even those times when I've known my vote wouldn't influence the outcome. That it's come to me feeling I can't vote for any of them leaves me sad. I'll probably end up spoiling my ballot paper.

The limited thinking of adults leads to those adults deciding that a child is 'trans' because they don't fit the desired stereotypes I saw a post on Twitter a few days ago that said

A four year old trans child or a vegan dog, you know who's calling the shots.

Have to agree.

I've just seen a two minute clip of a Keir Starmer interview on LBC. In it he says "of course all adult females are women". Proof positive it's only ever about appeasing transwomen with them, because otherwise if an adult male can be recognised as a woman, why did he not say "some adult females are women and some are men"?

GagaJo

What will happen to that theory, if trans people still want to transition? If they still want SRS? Because i don't hear trans people stating that opinion.

I've asked this a few times

Rosie51

I've just seen a two minute clip of a Keir Starmer interview on LBC. In it he says "of course all adult females are women". Proof positive it's only ever about appeasing transwomen with them, because otherwise if an adult male can be recognised as a woman, why did he not say "some adult females are women and some are men"?

I understand that fear of drawing the ire of the trans lobby, with its 'cancellation' policy and bullying tactics will be real. Their sanctions against people like authors and academics are bad enough, but for politicians in the run up to an election the potential for ruining them is high.

But if he met this head on, and exposed it for what it is, surely there would be more people (male, female and trans) who would be angry and supportive? There is already a growing shift in opinion as more people realise the implications of accommodating trans issues, and impatience with the anodyne 'be kind' message, as people wise up to the fact that it is code for 'women shut up'. Combine that with anger about the obvious injustice of the sport incidents, which will open the door to more conversations about things like prisons, and it could be a good PR move, as well as a 'common sense' one.

GagaJo Have you had time to investigate which GN members have been making orchestrated attacks on you and others on here who are not 'intersectional feminsts', whatever that may be. I haven't a clue, although I have been accused of being one.

Doodledog, Have you written to Starmer?
I have, not least because currently a small, vocal minority dominate the headlines

No, I haven't yet. I'm away just now, but that's no excuse these days, is it? If I can post on here I can send an email .

If Kier Starmer backtracked on his personal beliefs due to angry emails, how could anyone respect him

We don't know what his personal beliefs are. Do not assume they correspond with you own. We don't know because he won't tell us.

Plus, he's changed his mind about the pledges he made to get elected as leader, who knows what he really believes about anything.

KS was asked “Can a woman have a penis?” Instead of answering yes or no, he waffled his way through a reply which didn’t answer the question in any shape or form. So how can we know what his personal beliefs are? Imo, he is not worthy of respect.

A woman doesn’t have a penis, never has, never will.

FarNorth

Whitewavemark2 says this on page 3 of this thread :

By the time the child is at school it is entirely established in its gender role.

That seems a very depressing thought to me.
What happened to "anyone can have whatever interests teyat want, dress how they choose etc"?

I know that many children are encouraged to fit stereotypes and I'm sure that this is behind many of the claims that a child is 'trans'.
The limited thinking of adults leads to those adults deciding that a child is 'trans' because they don't fit the desired stereotypes.

No it isn’t as simple as stereotyping.

I haven’t got the research to hand, someone may have it on here, but it has been established that boy and girl babies are treated differently. There are different expectations, and unconscious bias between the two sexes. So you may consciously encourage neutral behaviour in a child, like choice of toys etc, but if you watch pre-school children at play the difference in their behaviour is clear.

GrannyGravy13

A woman doesn’t have a penis, never has, never will.

??? post of the day

How can anyone respect KS if he can't or wont answer such a straightforward question?

He's trying not to put himself in a position where his words can be twisted to sound as though he's saying that TWANW, and that will then be further twisted to make him into a 'transphobe' (which to some is simply anyone who doesn't agree that sex can be changed by uttering magic words).

I get it - I really do. It can be bad enough posting on here, knowing that some eejit is going to come along and say that because I said that laws exist to protect people against serial killers (they do) I think that transpeople are serial killers (I don't), or that I am a Nazi sympathiser, or a racist or whatever (I'm neither). And I'm not posting on here for a living - I'm just pootling about online when I'm not working. Absolutely nothing depends on my posts or opinions.

Starmer (and Lammy and Dodds and the rest of them) have to be so careful, as the last thing they need is to have every interview turned into a defence of something they didn't say - they have far more wide-reaching issues to deal with.

I very much doubt that they don't know what a cervix is, or that they believe that chanting a mantra can change someone's sex. Of course they don't. They are playing a game that they won't want to play, but can't afford to lose. It's madness, and it's divisive, but there's not a lot they can do but try to play it to win.

FarNorth

Whitewavemark2

So the young male, who at pre-puberty is uncomfortable in his assigned gender role.

My question is, what is pushing him to try to change his gender.

Is it simply a rejection of his gender or is it something in his biology?

Now I am stuck. As I don’t know. It makes a huge difference in the answer to this as one is a preference and the other is predetermined I think.

Do you mean "What is pushing him to try to change his sex?" ?

He can change his gender by simply behaving & presenting himself in non-stereotypical ways.
He can't change his sex but many are encouraged to try to resemble the opposite sex.

No I chose my words very carefully, because I am not clear and neither are the scientists that it is biology that is pushing the rejection of the sex of an individual.

Yes, it can be bad enough posting on here as you say Doodledog but we do don't we.

Starmer and the other Labour politicians mentioned are keen to avoid becoming the targets of the noisy trans activists. They don’t want their words twisted, want to avoid being labelled in the way gender critical people are.
I can’t imagine Starmer changing whatever his mind is in response to emails. I do believe it’s important not only those who make most noise are heard

Please let’s not have any expressions of surprise or astonishment about this. The 2004 Gender Recognition act came about because of and to suit
.
.
.
MEN!
The decision to use the term for AHF was made by
.
.
.
MEN.
The trans now, who want to use the word women are . . . Yes, you guessed it. MEN!
Now tell me that that isn’t patriarchy in power.

Smileless2012

Yes, it can be bad enough posting on here as you say Doodledog but we do don't we.

Yes, for better or worse

But as I say, what I say on here doesn't matter. I'm not going to lose my livelihood if you (or anyone else) disagrees with me, thinks I'm a idiot or twists my words so that I am saying that transpeople are devil spawn (I'm not saying that!!!) I don't know how many people read GN, but not as many as read The Mail, and of those who do read a lot are bored of trans threads - it's not remotely the same as a Laura Kuenssberg interview on primetime TV. There is a lot more at stake for Starmer et al.

I think that a lot of people aren't particularly bothered about trans issues. Unless people know someone who has transitioned, they will see it as an irrelevance, and a lot of people will buy the facile (but ubiquitous) 'be kind' message and see it as being 'inclusive', without realising the wider implications.

I do think that the sport incidents will turn the tide though. No rational person can think that it's fair for a 6 foot man to compete against a woman of 5 foot 3, and sports fans like fairness. The trans lobby has overplayed its hand with this one, and the message will spread to other areas, I'm sure.

M0nica

GagaJo Have you had time to investigate which GN members have been making orchestrated attacks on you and others on here who are not 'intersectional feminsts', whatever that may be. I haven't a clue, although I have been accused of being one.

MOnica, I know exactly who those individuals are. They've done it too many times for me to be in any doubt.

However, I am delighted to be able to say that recently (the last week or so) it seems to have been a lot more civil. And that was all I wanted really. I have no problem with people who have a different belief system to me. But I don't expect that any of us should to be mocked, jeered at, or shouted down. And it isn't happening at the moment, which is great.

To be fair, I think that's a bit disingenuous, GagaJo.

As a number of people who don't usually post on these threads have pointed out, the mocking and jeering are not at all one-sided, and nor is the shouting down.

I agree that it's great when it doesn't, but don't push your luck .

I try my best Whitewavenark2

Doodledog, I don't see you correcting the opposite side on here when they make statements about hostility. So not exactly an unbiased perspective.