I think all this furore is all due to plastic and the chemicals therein.
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What is a woman?
(210 Posts)What is a woman to me?
I feel in modern times women are being reduced to sex categories, ignoring our vast and varied biology. The very biology that for years has allowed women to be stereotyped, seen as weaker and even seen as so great in difference to other women, women were enslaved and sold.
Biology as diverse as a woman's has caused so many non white women pain and fear yet the biology of women is now somehow fixed?
Sojourner Truth "Ain't I a woman?"
Yet we are all women and that must be respected while acknowledging our differences, our separate struggles, our journeys to claiming our womanhood. The discriminations other women have faced that we don't and the discriminations other women have faced that we do because of biological diversity.
Some simply see women as one simple biological fact, men and women. Nothing else.
Some of us see it as a rainbow, A beautiful spectrum of difference and diversity. Men, women, trans, non binary people, all valid.
I wasn't born a woman, I was born a baby, I became a child, on an equal footing with boys, running and jumping and getting dirty in the mud. What was there to tell us apart but the hair and clothes chosen for us by adults?
I wasn't born a woman, society told me I was one when I reached physical maturity. Society told me what to wear, how to act.
Am I a woman? I choose my own hair, my own clothes, my personality and how to express myself in the ways that other women do that I enjoy as an individual.
Can anyone look at me and declare my womanhood undoubtedly? Probably but only because that is what I choose and how I express myself. Is that true of all people? No.
You see everything about who I am as a woman is on the inside. Its in my thoughts, my opinions, my appreciation of beautiful things, the way I would like to look, the clothes I would like to wear, in the things I appreciate about friends and family, the strength I have for my children, the love and the pure determination to be a good mother.
I am a woman on the inside, not the outside. That's how I identify. I can change the outside. I can gain or lose weight, I can wear more or less make up, I can cut my hair or grow it out. I can have my body surgically altered but who I am on the inside remains the same.
I am one woman amongst a world of biologically diverse women, not a single one of us looks exactly the same, we don't all choose to express our gender identity visually at all, yet still identify as women.
It is the same for trans women.
I am a woman and so is she.
Oh and grayson Perry doesnt identify as a woman as far as I am aware, he sometimes wears clothes that are traditionally associated with women, and the ian huntley thing as far as I am aware wasnt true.
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2nd last paragraph is great.
I for one will not forget these weak willed, weak spirited women who threw us all to the wolves because they wanted to juggle a man’s balls and be told they are good girls by men in dresses.
Galaxy
Oh and grayson Perry doesnt identify as a woman as far as I am aware, he sometimes wears clothes that are traditionally associated with women, and the ian huntley thing as far as I am aware wasnt true.
Still waiting for the many examples of old women who decide later on in life that they want to identify as men and access male only spaces.
Think I'll be waiting a long time.
The rate of female to male transition is now higher than male to female transition in young people, as far as I am aware there has not been a similar increase in middle age women.
Still waiting for the many examples of old women who decide later on in life that they want to identify as men and access male only spaces.
I agree we don't see older women transitioning.
This is something that would seem to contradict the notion that the explosion in the numbers of young women transitioning is because it's now acceptable. If there have always been this proportion of females wanting to transition to men you would expect a huge surge of middle aged and older women to feel released now.
Cross posted you said it while I was typing Galaxy
It’s always the same people boring us with their personal obsessions.
It really is very simple.
Women have XX chromosomes, ovaries, a womb and a vagina.
Men have XY chromosomes, a penis and testicles.
No mater what surgery is done or what hormones are taken a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
A man minus his penis and testicles is exactly that - a man..
A woman with an artificial penis and a mastectomy - a woman.
Please don’t think browbeating people with this silly ideology will make anyone with an ounce of intelligence change their mind. It is scientific fact.
I am baffled by ‘I wasn’t born a woman society told me I was one when I reached physical Maturity’
Anniebach
I am baffled by ‘I wasn’t born a woman society told me I was one when I reached physical Maturity’
... so am I...
Esspee
It’s always the same people boring us with their personal obsessions.
It really is very simple.
Women have XX chromosomes, ovaries, a womb and a vagina.
Men have XY chromosomes, a penis and testicles.
No mater what surgery is done or what hormones are taken a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
A man minus his penis and testicles is exactly that - a man..
A woman with an artificial penis and a mastectomy - a woman.
Please don’t think browbeating people with this silly ideology will make anyone with an ounce of intelligence change their mind. It is scientific fact.
Excellent post Esspee.
Sadly the flat Earth society still insist the Earth is flat.
I am afraid that NO minds will be changed either way.
We all have our own opinions.
Mine is biology cannot be changed.
Gender is a choice.
What maked me sad and angry is the expectations and demands of others are eroding the welfare and safety of biological women and girls.
A third way is required.
As long as there are those who insist that a man can change sex and become a woman, we will continue to see the erosion of biological women and girls welfare and safety Cherrytree.
snowberryZ Why so many middle aged men transition? And why not women?
Maybe it is equal but when a man decides to change they make a lot of noise whereas a women do it quietly.
Sorry if I have got the terms wrong.
It would be interesting if someone, who was openly and cheerfully trans, could give a view.
There is a majority who feel their privacy/safe spaces etc is being eroded by all this. They are speaking about their own feelings, and that's fine.
But, there is also a small, very vocal, minority, of trans-supporters who spend hours saying what trans people need, want and what should happen.
But, they are speaking on behalf of others, if they are not trans.
Just be nice if we could hear from a person actually doing and living a trans life.
Smileless2012
As long as there are those who insist that a man can change sex and become a woman, we will continue to see the erosion of biological women and girls welfare and safety Cherrytree.
Surely a vaginoplasty would help to prove the sincerity of the person, wouldn’t it?
I love that line, I'm a woman and so is she.
GagaJo
I love that line, *I'm a woman and so is she.*
There is a forum on Facebook that is almost 3 million strong. I don't really have time to get on Facebook much but it's a good place to go for a different view than Gransnet. I can message you the name as I wouldn't be able to share it here.
Diamond Lily, I disagree that it's the majority that feel threatened.
On Mumsnet / Gransnet it's the majority. In real life, the majority are disinterested. And the majority of young people are lgbTq friendly and supportive.
Yes please VioletSky.
That just reminded me of
‘I’m Brian, and so’s my wife!’
Esspee
It’s always the same people boring us with their personal obsessions.
It really is very simple.
Women have XX chromosomes, ovaries, a womb and a vagina.
Men have XY chromosomes, a penis and testicles.
No mater what surgery is done or what hormones are taken a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
A man minus his penis and testicles is exactly that - a man..
A woman with an artificial penis and a mastectomy - a woman.
Please don’t think browbeating people with this silly ideology will make anyone with an ounce of intelligence change their mind. It is scientific fact.
Is there any need for rudeness Esspee? I seem to recall you are very evangelical about a topic and frequency regale us about it. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been rude to you about it.
*frequently
Surely a vaginoplasty would help to prove the sincerity of the person, wouldn’t it?
The trouble is Mykrona, the majority of male to female transitioners no longer opt to have bottom surgery .
Even though they feminise themselves in every other way, most transwomen decide to retain their male genitalia. Apparently they use certain tucking and strapping methods so that it doesn't show when wearing dresses.
This is what all the furore is about.
Any man who has decided to self identify as a woman can now access previously women only spaces.
So you can have a biological male (with all his bits) in the same toilets and changing rooms where vulnerable women and shy teenage girls are coming to grips with things like first periods, and changing bodies.
They basically have to suck it up and shut up and put any comfort to discomfort and concerns to one side because, you know we're women, we should budge up, be kind and not make a fuss.
I think there are a LOT of women who mistakebly think that the majority of transwomen have had surgery to transform their penises into vagina
This is definitely not the case.
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