The law as it stands on sex, Part 2

I dont know if anyone who would later detransition actually had gender dysphoria in the first place well that doesn't say much for the judgement and skillset of those 'professionals' who signed off on it and facilitated the transition in the first place does it? Mastectomies, euphemistically called 'top surgery', creating neo-vaginas by inverting penises rarer but referred to as 'bottom surgery'. When doctors use euphemisms about a surgical procedure it waves red flags in my opinion. Nobody called my breast cancer surgery 'top surgery'.

I dont think people always get the correct and appropriate treatment for anything Rosie

But i do know we cannot stop treatment for trans people because mistakes were made for some.

I also did say that these things need better funding and research so that we can eliminate mistakes in future

Do you know the percentage of those who detransition?

It used to be very low, I think what is happening now is indicating something quite serious. I think if people carry on with all these red flags waving then they will be culpable. I think thats why some of the surgeons who have carried out numerous surgeries are backtracking because they can see what is happening.

Hsve you read the surveys done Galaxy?

The vast majority who detransition do so before any irreverable changes and of those, i cant remember the exact figure, but over 80% of those who detransitioned at some point (people retransition too) cited discrimination and fear as a reason, either in their homes, schools, socially, work environments....

It may actually not be suprising that people are detransitioning more now that people are being so vocally anti trans

Turn-on-makes her happy, feel good. Using the word cis knowing I and others find it unacceptable.
If you think it means anything else, feel free to share

It is just the way I speak, if I was meaning to be rude I would just be rude in all honesty and be happy to admit to it

Oh right! Lots of things get written on here that seem to be read as "rude" or "confronting" or "challenging" or "invalidating" don't they. I suppose this was another example.

Either way, I don't generally "intend to be rude" on public forums, it tends to lead to unnecessary unpleasantness.

Its stange to think that anyone would find any kind of unkindness to others pleasurable to be honest amd im not sure where that idea comes from?

Cis is in fact used by the scientific and medical community and intolerance to its use is tied to philosphical beliefs, not facts about meaning

trisher I think I said some would describe it as a stage, Eddie Izzard identified as a transvestite for many years, she now identifies as a transwoman

Yes you did say some would describe it that way. You also said "a man in a dress is a transvestite". I don't think that description is accurate. A man in a dress may be a transvestite, or they may be in a stage towards being a transwoman but not necessarily!

VioletSky

I don’t know if anyone who would later detransition actually had gender dysphoria in the first place

But they are allowed and encouraged in the interest of ‘trans rights’ to undergo potentially irrevocable surgery just in case?

VS
Its stange to think that anyone would find any kind of unkindness to others pleasurable to be honest amd im not sure where that idea comes from?

So you are saying that TW like Karen White didn’t find the unkindness to their victims pleasurable. I’m not sure that would help the victims but if you say so.
Why were they so unkind then?
Did they just do it to pass the time, or to demonstrate their hatred of AHF?

Madgran77

*trisher I think I said some would describe it as a stage, Eddie Izzard identified as a transvestite for many years, she now identifies as a transwoman*

Yes you did say some would describe it that way. You also said "a man in a dress is a transvestite". I don't think that description is accurate. A man in a dress may be a transvestite, or they may be in a stage towards being a transwoman but not necessarily!

Madgran77 I completely agree and apologise, however I have to be careful using words like "may" on these threads because I am so often accused of prevaricating and refusing to give a definitive answer. You are completely right of course.

Oh I know some people find pleasure in being unkind, I just dont know why that would be assumed of someone who hasn't shown any sign that is the case

Mollygo

^The people most at danger of violence from strangers are other men. Women are most at danger of violence from a partner or relative.^
Most rapes are committed by someone a woman knows
More men than women are murdered.
More women are murdered by someone close to them.
^Women are subjected to violence by police officers. From 2016-2021 over 800 instances of violence by police officers were reported by women. Only 43 cases were prosecuted.
All of these are true^

Oh oh-trisher (not some people) you are back saying that if it’s only a small number of attacks on AHF by males who are TW it makes it less important.
No one on GN as far as I know doesn't acknowledge any of the harm you mention e.g. that men get murdered, or that women get murdered by someone they know.

What I am saying is that if even a small number of AHF are harmed by a male purporting to be a female and using that misrepresentation to be in a position to commit that harm more easily it’s no less important and should not be dismissed they way you appear to do.

E.g.
TW in AHF safe spaces-why does a TW who looks male need to be in an AHF safe space?
Just to prove he can be, knowing it will be upsetting for some of those needing a refuge. (Please don’t drag in your tall, deep voiced, strong, muscular friend again.)

TW in female hospital wards, particularly psychiatric wards, where traumatised women suffering from androphobia are faced with a TW who is the sex they fear.

TW in female prisons where they perpetuate the crimes they were incarcerated for, or simply threaten to do so, causing physical or mental harm to AHF.

And while you’re not answering that (you can even use cis, since you find that a turn-on), how about an unequivocal answer to this.

Trans people must be able to understand when their rights are infringed, and to be able to take appropriate action.

So using your language trisher, can you now give an unequivocal answer to the following?

And when these trans rights conflict with or override the rights of cis women trisher, your position is . . . ?

I await your next obfuscation-or simply non answer.

I was always told if I wanted an answer I should ask politely. It's a pity some people are never taught that.

I support any person who believes they are in the wrong body to be given support.
But I do not want to be brow beaten into believing that men actually bcome physically women.
It simply is not so.

I have no problem with dressing as women or wearing makeup, wigs etc but these are not qualities that make a person a women.
All my life i have been an unfeminine female. I have a daughter who is similar, she has five children.
One of hers is in a deep relationship with a transman.
None of us are bothered. We welcome him as a person first and foremost.

But I will not give up my belief that females need separate space.
I waas raped when young and it felt very bad but I am lucky that after therapy I have been able to have decent sexual relationships with both men and women.

So I say we need our sacred spaces and while trans women can be presenting as women they are transwomen and not women.

sorry i missed out " men" dressing as women.

I don't think any violence against women should be ignored I do think this focus on trans issues is strange and possibly stems from the fact that 50 years after the first women's refuge was started we still have huge levels of domestic violence. I think it's something of a distraction. Because we haven't manged to make the changes we thought we would, some are focussing on irrelevancies and easy targets.

trisher

Madgran77

trisher I think I said some would describe it as a stage, Eddie Izzard identified as a transvestite for many years, she now identifies as a transwoman

Yes you did say some would describe it that way. You also said "a man in a dress is a transvestite". I don't think that description is accurate. A man in a dress may be a transvestite, or they may be in a stage towards being a transwoman but not necessarily!

Madgran77 I completely agree and apologise, however I have to be careful using words like "may" on these threads because I am so often accused of prevaricating and refusing to give a definitive answer. You are completely right of course.

Thankyou!

Because we haven't manged to make the changes we thought we would, some are focussing on irrelevancies and easy targets.

Well said trisher! Those easy targets are women!

ps.... don't suppose you've managed to find those posts to support your accusations earlier today have you? Just one? Any at all?

Madgran77

*It is just the way I speak, if I was meaning to be rude I would just be rude in all honesty and be happy to admit to it*

Oh right! Lots of things get written on here that seem to be read as "rude" or "confronting" or "challenging" or "invalidating" don't they. I suppose this was another example.

Either way, I don't generally "intend to be rude" on public forums, it tends to lead to unnecessary unpleasantness.

Yes it does, and it also weakens people's points in discussion so doesn't have any logical use

Why do you do it then?

No VS sorry but thats not whats happening now, the cass report and other investigations are flagging up serious issues in data collection etc. These are a new group, mostly young women, they are citing other reasons. Thank god people are responding and starting to apply the brakes.

trisher
I was always told if I wanted an answer I should ask politely. It's a pity some people are never taught that

I was always taught that it was good manners, if someone asks a question, that you don’t switch words round to enable you to give the answer you want, rather than the question you were asked.
Your version of good manners ???

Chewbacca

Why do you do it then?

Good point Chewbacca,

VS Yes it does, and it also weakens people's points in discussion so doesn't have any logical use
but maybe VS doesn’t understand that that’s what she’s doing.

I don't

VioletSky

I don't

Never mind. I’ll be kind and say, “If it’s plain to others, it doesn’t matter if you don’t see it.”