Roe v Wade

Reading around, one argument being used is that constitutionally the US Supreme Court should never have legislated on the subject and that the current decision, if applied, is in effect handing back the decision about making abortion legal/illegal to electors via their representatives at State level.

In short, that if the majority of voters within a state want abortion to be legalised, they can vote for it, and the converse (not sure that's the word but hope you get my meaning) also. It has been pointed out that most if not all Democrat states will continue to allow abortion and that most Republican states won't.

1. If wombs had windows....
2. It's worth watching what actually happens in an abortion.
3. Back street abortion was a terrible evil and some women died because of it. But every unborn child dies in an abortion.
4. If we are truly standing up for female rights, is it not worth considering the rights of female unborn babies?
5. I'm never going to judge a woman who has had an abortion because I have never stood in her shoes. However, although my thoughts will not be popular, I hope I'm allowed to say I disagree with the action.

icanhandthemback

4allweknow

How long does it usually take to decide on an abortion or not, I have no idea personally. The change in law allows abortion up to six weeks, not long for some to confirm pregnancy never mind arrange termination. Retrograde step for USA.

One of the problems with the six week rule is, so it has been argued anyway, that technically someone whose baby aborts naturally (i.e. miscarries) after six weeks could then suffer the weight of the law if they can't prove it was natural. This would be grossly unfair.

Milliedog

1. If wombs had windows....
2. It's worth watching what actually happens in an abortion.
3. Back street abortion was a terrible evil and some women died because of it. But every unborn child dies in an abortion.
4. If we are truly standing up for female rights, is it not worth considering the rights of female unborn babies?
5. I'm never going to judge a woman who has had an abortion because I have never stood in her shoes. However, although my thoughts will not be popular, I hope I'm allowed to say I disagree with the action.

1. They don't.
2. Depends on what stage the pregnancy is at.
3. So is it worse for the mother and baby to both die as a result of a backstreet abortion than for her to have access to a safe and legal termination.
4. I don't understand the relevance of that. Should female unborn babies matter more than males?
5. Of course you can disagree with her actions. What you don't have the right to do is to dictate what a woman can do with her own body.

Blondiescot

Milliedog

1. If wombs had windows....
2. It's worth watching what actually happens in an abortion.
3. Back street abortion was a terrible evil and some women died because of it. But every unborn child dies in an abortion.
4. If we are truly standing up for female rights, is it not worth considering the rights of female unborn babies?
5. I'm never going to judge a woman who has had an abortion because I have never stood in her shoes. However, although my thoughts will not be popular, I hope I'm allowed to say I disagree with the action.

1. They don't.
2. Depends on what stage the pregnancy is at.
3. So is it worse for the mother and baby to both die as a result of a backstreet abortion than for her to have access to a safe and legal termination.
4. I don't understand the relevance of that. Should female unborn babies matter more than males?
5. Of course you can disagree with her actions. What you don't have the right to do is to dictate what a woman can do with her own body.

Bit snappy, blondie. There is nothing dictatorial in milliedog's post. She is expressing her opinions.

Absolutely shocking that a right wing judiciary have the legal right to overturn a support that I heard on TV last night, if it can be trusted, runs at 70% pro abortion rights. ‘Of the people, for the people’? I thought the USA was attempting democratic status? Abortions are frowned on in Russia too, I believe.

Baggs

Blondiescot

Milliedog

1. If wombs had windows....
2. It's worth watching what actually happens in an abortion.
3. Back street abortion was a terrible evil and some women died because of it. But every unborn child dies in an abortion.
4. If we are truly standing up for female rights, is it not worth considering the rights of female unborn babies?
5. I'm never going to judge a woman who has had an abortion because I have never stood in her shoes. However, although my thoughts will not be popular, I hope I'm allowed to say I disagree with the action.

1. They don't.
2. Depends on what stage the pregnancy is at.
3. So is it worse for the mother and baby to both die as a result of a backstreet abortion than for her to have access to a safe and legal termination.
4. I don't understand the relevance of that. Should female unborn babies matter more than males?
5. Of course you can disagree with her actions. What you don't have the right to do is to dictate what a woman can do with her own body.

Bit snappy, blondie. There is nothing dictatorial in milliedog's post. She is expressing her opinions.

Apologies - wasn't meant to come across as snappy. I thought I was simply refuting each point.

I have a friend whose daughter had a termination at 12.5 weeks. It was a much wanted baby who had major problems with its skeleton development which showed up at the 12 week scan. If she had tried to carry the baby to term, she was told the baby would not survive, and she would likely have died herself.

The whole family, and especially the daughter and her husband, were truly gutted.

These are the cases that anti-abortionists don't seem to consider.

Amalegra

Absolutely shocking that a right wing judiciary have the legal right to overturn a support that I heard on TV last night, if it can be trusted, runs at 70% pro abortion rights. ‘Of the people, for the people’? I thought the USA was attempting democratic status? Abortions are frowned on in Russia too, I believe.

I think the democracy point, amalgera, is that it isn't the job of the judiciary to make laws. Their job is to apply them only. Making laws is down to people's representatives, not judges.

The point being argued is that the judicial Roe v Wade decision was unconstitutional.

Baggs

The point being argued is that the judicial Roe v Wade decision was unconstitutional.

This is why, at least as I understand it, if this Supreme Court ruling goes through, it has the potential to affect many other aspects of life in the USA. I think more Americans would be against changes in their state laws so it could help the Democrats in the Mid term elections and there is also the possibility that Biden could appoint another to the Supreme Court who would change the balance. Perhaps it's just as well that we don't have a Constitution in the UK. What makes me very angry is Trump was originally pro-choice and only became pro-life when he saw an electoral advantage! It's such a pity that RBG didn't resign on health grounds when Obama was president, so that he could make the replacement appointment.

I cannot believe I would ever have chosen abortion myself, unless perhaps in the case of rape, but preventing women from making that very hard choice is wrong.

I have never tried to influence any woman against the choice either not to have children in general, or to opt for an abortion. It is no business of mine.

I find it despicable that any poor woman who has been raped either by a man she knows or one she does not, should be expected to carry the child to term,

I also deplore that a country like the U.S. that still has capital punishment in some states, can even consider banning abortion.

Their time, money and effort would be better spent preventing rape, or punishing rapists more effectively than preventing women who feel they cannot give a child a decent life the right to abortion.

This is definitely a backward step. Whose idea is this? A man's, or a woman's? What happens when a woman is raped, does she have to go through with the birth?

In my heart I am sad about any abortion but think women are entitled to have a choice. What really angers me are late abortions where the child could live for the flimsiest of reasons. It’s different if the mothers health is at risk.
But banning abortion will drive women to hurting themselves or looking for back street abortionists and nobody wants that to happen.

The whole family, and especially the daughter and her husband, were truly gutted.

Sparklefizz, my son was 9 when my abortion choice was made. He found it so difficult because he was already raising his hand in class when asked who had a younger sister or brother. It was so real to him and he found it very difficult to get his head around the thought that his mother could have "killed" his sister. He had to have therapy. When he was 16 we actually had a huge row about it but when his wife had their baby who turned out to be autistic, he came to me and apologised. Although he would have never got rid of his baby, he suddenly realised the position we were in making such a difficult decision
.

foxie48 Wed 04-May-22 12:08:02

I had no intention to offend. "You" can refer to one person or more than one person. Your original post was about someone else, not you personally. I generalised my reply to a plural "you" because it was a reply to the opinion you expressed not you personally. Perhaps I should have used the "one" but it seems very antiquated.

It was not all about "you"; it was a general comment.

That's it. I will not continue to reply to someone so determined to take offence.

Every child should be wanted, loved, housed, fed, educated. How will the anti abortionists ensure this right for the child who will ultimately grow into an adult. Have they given any thought to the future beyond the birth of a child? Are they going to contribute towards the upbringing of these "unwanted" children
I don't like the idea of abortion but I feel for the women who think they have no other choice.

Foxie48 -- It's such a pity that RBG didn't resign on health grounds when Obama was president, so that he could make the replacement appointment.

The Republicans put off voting on M Garland, under Obama - why would they have allowed voting on a RBG replacement under Obama?

This in a country with more guns than adults and the death penalty for prison inmates? They value life? Really?

A Supreme Court spokesperson said in a statement the draft published by Politico is "authentic," but said "it does not represent a decision by the Court or the final position of any member on the issues in the case."

White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters later on Tuesday, "The President's position is that we need to codify Roe, and that is what he has long called on Congress to act on."

Psaki continued, "What is also true is that there has been a vote on the Women's Health Protection Act, which would do exactly that, and there were not even enough votes, even if there was no filibuster, to get that done."

The legislation, which would protect abortion access, passed the House in September but failed to advance in the Senate.

If the court issues a final opinion along the lines of the draft, it would be the most consequential abortion decision in decades and would transform the landscape of women's reproductive health in America

[Source: CNN Politics}

Just in passing: Does UK have a constitution?

The United Kingdom constitution is composed of the laws and rules that create the institutions of the state, regulate the relationships between those institutions, or regulate the relationship between the state and the individual. These laws and rules are not codified in a single, written document.

You are very brave to have given us an insight into your experience, icanhandthemback. It must have been awful for you. I hope that your GN name means that you have had happiness in your family too.

We don't have a written constitution.

I think the Supreme court will eventually over throw RvW which will mean some states will make abortion very difficult if not impossible. Abortion will still be permitted in more liberal states which means women will travel to access abortion as they did in the past. The problem now is that some of those women will face prosecution when they return home.

What makes me very angry is Trump was originally pro-choice and only became pro-life when he saw an electoral advantage!

This is an interesting point, foxie. On the one hand it certainly does seem politically self-interested and unprincipled; on the other hand, our political representatives are supposed to support what the voters want, not impose their own views/principles. So I kind of get a political change of stance. Trump isn't the only one who has apparently changed his mind on political issues by any means.

I also deplore that a country like the U.S. that still has capital punishment in some states, can even consider banning abortion.

The difference being that someone who has 'deserved' the death penalty according to the laws of his state has broken laws and often has done abominable things. Because of that I don't think there are really any comparable reference terms between the death penalty for criminals and banning abortion.

Which – important disclaimer – does not mean I'm arguing for death penalties. I might if someone murdered my child, I suppose.