Durham Police to Investigate Kier Starmer over breaking lockdown rules

Whose idea was it to have elected Police Commissioners?

No, don't tell me....

MayBee70

DaisyAnne

Germanshepherdsmum

I don't agree. Democracy can be exercised at the next GE.

But are you sure? One of the worst things about living in this time is that we have seen Trump and we have seen Putin. All the things we thought had been locked away seem to be escaping and I see much of it in Johnson.

Even Kenneth Clark is saying Johnson is becoming dictator like.

Not sure why you say ‘even’ MayBee70*, Ken Clarke has always been a sensible man. I don’t agree with his politics, but I’ve always respected his opinion, he doesn’t suffer fools.

GrannyGravy13

I am getting concerned about the impartiality of our police, which is something I have until now never given much thought.

The Met seems biased towards the Government of the day, and after seeing this is the force in Durham biased towards Labour as the PCC is a Labour favourite.

Shouldn’t all police and legal appointments be non political?

I’m struggling to see any logic in this, because the police posted the news that they were looking again at the alleged breach by Starmer on the same day as the election results came out, which surely doesn’t show any prejudice towards him.
It’s just an attempt by the right wing press to justify why he won’t be prosecuted, for something most people don’t think he did in the first place, rather than them apologising surely?

^It’s just an attempt by the right wing press to justify why he won’t be prosecuted, for something most people don’t think he did in the first place, rather than them apologising surely?

Starmer has nothing to apologise for.

The Met seems biased towards the Government of the day, and after seeing this is the force in Durham biased towards Labour as the PCC is a Labour favourite.

You're as bad as the right wing press, GG13. Calling 'bias' is impugning the integrity of the Durham Police commissioner without any proof.

Perhaps you could explain what 'bias' she was showing when the Durham police declined to fine Cummings for flagrant breaches of the lockdown in place in April 2020?

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

I am getting concerned about the impartiality of our police, which is something I have until now never given much thought.

The Met seems biased towards the Government of the day, and after seeing this is the force in Durham biased towards Labour as the PCC is a Labour favourite.

Shouldn’t all police and legal appointments be non political?

I’m struggling to see any logic in this, because the police posted the news that they were looking again at the alleged breach by Starmer on the same day as the election results came out, which surely doesn’t show any prejudice towards him.
It’s just an attempt by the right wing press to justify why he won’t be prosecuted, for something most people don’t think he did in the first place, rather than them apologising surely?

My logic is that we in the U.K. surely want an unbiased police force, regardless of so called beergate / partygate

I am beginning to feel uncomfortable with PCC’s being aligned to any political party, it can/could make people suspicious of future decisions made.

MaizieD

^The Met seems biased towards the Government of the day, and after seeing this is the force in Durham biased towards Labour as the PCC is a Labour favourite.^

You're as bad as the right wing press, GG13. Calling 'bias' is impugning the integrity of the Durham Police commissioner without any proof.

Perhaps you could explain what 'bias' she was showing when the Durham police declined to fine Cummings for flagrant breaches of the lockdown in place in April 2020?

I cannot see why wanting a non-political police force and PCC is considered as being right wing ?

As for Mr.Cummings I posted at the time that the events surrounding Durham should have been investigated.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

The Met seems biased towards the Government of the day, and after seeing this is the force in Durham biased towards Labour as the PCC is a Labour favourite.

You're as bad as the right wing press, GG13. Calling 'bias' is impugning the integrity of the Durham Police commissioner without any proof.

Perhaps you could explain what 'bias' she was showing when the Durham police declined to fine Cummings for flagrant breaches of the lockdown in place in April 2020?

I cannot see why wanting a non-political police force and PCC is considered as being right wing ?

As for Mr.Cummings I posted at the time that the events surrounding Durham should have been investigated.

I'm sorry. That doesn't answer my question relating to Cummings and bias.

I'll repeat:

What 'bias' was she showing when Durham Police declined to fine Cummings?

(Who is most definitely not in any way connected with the Labour Party.)

I cannot see why wanting a non-political police force and PCC is considered as being right wing ?

It was your making accusations of wrong doing on the very slimmest of evidence that caused me to compare you with the RW press, GG13.

You're sliding past the questions...

MaizieD Durham police as far as I know didn’t bother to interview Mr.Cummings they took his Rose Garden press conference as sufficient, which in my opinion was a dereliction of their duty.

Could you please answer my question as to why you think that wanting a non-political police force and PCC’s is right wing?

Talking about Cummings

Dominic Cummings
· 1h
Replying to @AdamWagner1 and @Stuart_Wilson19
also of course the newspapers negotiated direct bungs to themselves with him, no officials on calls, then he told officials to send the £ -- dressed up as 'covid relief' etc

I don’t conflate the actions of the police force with the PCC appointments GrannyGravy13, that’s why I didn’t understand the original post your comment was based on. The PCCs are elected by the public to oversee the functioning of the police amongst other functions, they don’t manage them. I can’t see that there’s a better way of providing oversight than elected people in those roles if indeed the roles are required, which is a moot point.

Could you please answer my question as to why you think that wanting a non-political police force and PCC’s is right wing?

TBH, GG13, I ignored it because it had nothing to do with what I posted about.

Casdon

I don’t conflate the actions of the police force with the PCC appointments GrannyGravy13, that’s why I didn’t understand the original post your comment was based on. The PCCs are elected by the public to oversee the functioning of the police amongst other functions, they don’t manage them. I can’t see that there’s a better way of providing oversight than elected people in those roles if indeed the roles are required, which is a moot point.

I am not sure if PCC’s are needed, but if we have them I just do not think they should be aligned/stand on the back of a political party.

Doing so could leave them open to accusations of political bias.

How would you do it GrannyGravy13, I understand your point but is there another way? The candidates ‘sell’ themselves to the electorate in a different way to politicians, so their past relevant experience counts for a lot - they can be independent candidates, or declare their allegiance to, or be nominated by a political party, except in places where there is a Mayor, which includes the Met, obviously, but not Durham, as in the Met for example the PCC role comes under the remit of the Mayor. I’m really not convinced that the role is needed at all to be honest, and I don’t think the PCCs have any real control over the police at all.

Doing so could leave them open to accusations of political bias.

So where, GG13, was the political bias when the same police force, with the same Police commissioner, declined to fine Cummings?

Sorry to labour the point, but you have failed to answer my original question and you are accusing this Commissioner of political bias. If she were biased and if she was able to influence the Durham police, you might think that, being biased to Labour, she'd have made sure he had the book thrown at him. People were fined for much less...

Casdon I am so totally disillusioned with anything political at the moment, including all of the English main parties.

I suppose even the most Independent of candidates would have a political leaning. I just do not think it is good optics to be aligned with a political party especially if the force you are PCC of is investigating a political party/leader etc.

There seems to be a ground swell of mistrust in the police emanating from the Met along with Northern Forces handling of grooming gangs. Anything to throw further mistrust into the equation should in my opinion be avoided.

MaidieD I have answered this question up thread 16.49.
Dereliction of duty were they biased or just not up to doing their job properly?

If you ignore my questions to you, I really cannot bother to continue to answer your questions to me…

GrannyGravy13

MaidieD I have answered this question up thread 16.49.
Dereliction of duty were they biased or just not up to doing their job properly?

You don't understand my question at all, do you?

I didn't want or need your opinion of the Cummings case. It's irrelevant.

You are accusing the Durham Police Commissioner of political bias. It's a serious accusation.

The accusation has been made in respect of the fact that when the Durham police first had their attention drawn to the events of 30th April 2021 at Durham Miners Hall, they looked at the case and said that no offence had been committed. When the RW media thought fit to reopen the incident to smear the LOTO they accused the PC of political bias. You see a picture of her with the LOTO and you say 'political bias', echoing the RW press.

When I ask you about the Cummings case, in the vain hope that you might see that it doesn't exactly fit with your possible perception that the Durham PC is 'politically biased' you completely failed to answer the question I asked you.

I can only assume that you think that it's OK if your 'side' gets off, but are prepared to call 'political bias' if the other side does... Just like the RW press..

Isn't the "bias" problem the misunderstanding of the role of the Police and Crime Commissioner - that they are not the police and will not decide whether a crime has been committed or not ... or have I missed something?

That’s my understanding too Daisy.

MaizieD you asked me for my opinion on in your words the Cummings case in your post of 16.22 yesterday, then in your post of 18.04 you say I didn’t want or need your opinion of the Cummings case, it’s irrelevant

As you do not seem to know what you post or what answers you want I shall avoid your questions on this thread from now on.

DaisyAnne & Germanshepherdsmum I am aware that the PCC does not charge folks or investigate crimes

In my opinion to use a sound bite that I am not a fan of it is not good optics for leaders of political parties to endorse and be seen to be campaigning for a PCC. It could lead to accusations of bias, by any sector of the media, and in this case it is those who are not fans of the Labour Party, if the pictures were not available they could not have been used.

Yes I am guilty of posting pictures on this thread, but I would have posted pictures of a Conservative MP if the situation was reversed.

(For what it’s worth when Mr.Cummings was taking his trip to Durham, the PCC had resigned due to ill health and there was a Mr. Hogg standing in (he was a former Police Union representative at high level).)

Interesting thinking GG13. In the past, I would have said no police role was political. Now we have our previously American PM and the Tory party moving us closer to a US system. There all elected posts are seen as political. I think the same is happening here.

Has Johnson talked about politically appointed judges or did I dream that?
We don’t want politically appointed Judiciary or police chiefs.