Speaking the truth about brexit

Yes of course . Mr Gormley did all this work to obtain his German passport simply for something to do. One day he was sitting twiddling his thumbs and though: I know I’ll apply for a German passport. Something to do as a diversion in preference to playing tiddly winks.

Joelsnan

The BBC has printed an apology stating their claims Anthony Gormley was leaving UK because of Brexit were untrue. Mr Gormley is renewing his German passport which he can hold because his mother was German, but loves UK and does not intend leaving.

Well, that's interesting, Joelsnan, because the story varian linked to was from the Guardian and quotes his thoughts on Brexit at some length. I'd be surprised if they'd invented his comments. Nor does it say that he is leaving the UK. With a German passport he'll be able to use his right to freedom of movement without having to leave the UK... (lucky man)

But then, the Guardian doesn't have politically appointed masters, unlike the BBC.

I voted Leave, and indeed supported the Leave campaign because as an older worker pushed out of the jobs market by unlimited cheap young EU labour I was sick and tired of being ignored by the government. It’s no joke trying to survive on £71 a week as it then was - and don’t tell me I should have tried harder at school, I did, and have an OU degree. Retraining made not a scrap of difference. Nothing about this was being reported on the BBC which I eventually discovered to my great shock was because they were taking subsidies from the EU. Far from being apologetic about my part in that historic victory I am proud of it. The establishment got the good kicking it deserved from those of us who live in the real world.

Yes yes yes AND yes again!

I haven't been following this thread, so sorry if I am repeating something already said. There may be rebellion in the Conservative Party when it comes to voting on the Northern Ireland Protocol bill that would break international law.

That should be interesting. I wonder how many?

I don’t hold Brexit responsible for all that’s wrong at the moment, just most of it. I can’t altogether blame those who voted leave, some of whom were family and friends. Whether they were right or wrong, they voted for what they believed.
I do think all those who are grumbling but didn’t bother to vote, share the responsibility for the mess we’re in and some of those are as likely to be on GN as not, though they’re unlikely to say so.
They were led by CBA, or their own version of the pied piper, into believing that it didn’t matter whether they voted or not, but they are loud in their condemnation of the remain voters.
What can be done to get the non voting public to the polls, to stop that happening again?

PunkWomble

I voted Leave, and indeed supported the Leave campaign because as an older worker pushed out of the jobs market by unlimited cheap young EU labour I was sick and tired of being ignored by the government. It’s no joke trying to survive on £71 a week as it then was - and don’t tell me I should have tried harder at school, I did, and have an OU degree. Retraining made not a scrap of difference. Nothing about this was being reported on the BBC which I eventually discovered to my great shock was because they were taking subsidies from the EU. Far from being apologetic about my part in that historic victory I am proud of it. The establishment got the good kicking it deserved from those of us who live in the real world.

So because you believe our own government were inept you decided to punish everyone by getting us out of the EU. Good thinking.

"Whether they were right or wrong, they voted for what they believed."

I'd rather they had voted for what was true, rather than what they believed.

volver

"Whether they were right or wrong, they voted for what they believed."

I'd rather they had voted for what was true, rather than what they believed.

?

The CBI have stated that if the idiot who apparently leads the government decides to override the NI deal it will damage U.K. investment.

We know already that investment into the U.K. is falling rapidly and this will exasperate an already precarious position.

Starmer is demanding that the full legal advise over NI legislation, is released in full, in order that parliament can debate the issue from a fully informed position.

The reply from the government was tepid and it would only say that it would provide an outline of our legal position.

Clearly trying to hide something.

I would imagine that both businesses and voter in NI are alarmed at their current position which has benefited them to the extent that outside of London, it is the only region that has seen good economic growth, and the continue to have free movement etc. which this idiot is intent on removing. The DUP now a minority party must be appeased - we already have to the tune of £1.5bn.:

I see David Davis is blaming remainers because there are no Brexit benefits?????

Whitewavemark2

I see David Davis is blaming remainers because there are no Brexit benefits?????

The way that Davies was promoting Brexit in the campaign, threatening to walk away if we didn’t get exactly what we cherry picked, was too extreme even for JRM and the other cronies.

He is the very last person that should be involved in EU negotiations because his agenda was “our way or the highway”.

furzeacre579

as soon as i saw the "heading" i knew you lot on here would be anti brexit........you seem to be anti everything.....the government / Boris / the monarchy / Farage/ Trump, i' m sure you'd be far happier

... why should us "lot" not be anti-Brexit? We have the same freedom to express an opinion as you do.

Brexit has had a huge effect on our economic and constitutional way of life - as did joining in '75... and that didn't pass without comment from the Eurosceptics who were also "anti".

As for "Boris", Farage and Trump - there are good reasons to be critical. At a guess, you probably had / have a similar reaction to Corbyn and the Left - did you feel constrained to keep quiet about your opinions on both?

And you will find that both monarchists and republicans can be anti-Brexit.

The original post is under 'news & politics' and the heading indicates the tone of the post... what did you expect?

Perhaps instead of being critical of those who express an opinion with which you clearly disagree, you could give us some sound, factual and logical information / argument as to the benefits of Brexit, and good reasons why we should respect Boris, Farage and Trump?

It's not about being "anti" for the sake of being antagonistic, it's about the real - and for many - damaging effects of Brexit. Your experience may differ, maybe leaving the EU has brought you benefits - maybe there are things you can do now that our membership prevented you from doing previously? Some have definitely benefited financially from Brexit... have even made money out of it. Possibly you're one of those... so let's hear it for Brexit!

I’d rather it had been true, but how would you get the non-voting public to vote?

Richard Murphy

According to Politico the government’s illegal plans for Northern Ireland are opposed by some Tory MPs, the House of Lords, Northern Irish business groups, senior lawyers, Labour, the EU, and the US. But what does that matter when Liz Truss wants ERG votes to be Tory leader?

Mollygo

I’d rather it had been true, but how would you get the non-voting public to vote?

I read an article yesterday, been looking for it but I can't find it.

Basically it said that if all the non-voting public had voted, and they had voted the same was as other people in their age group, it wouldn't have changed the result at all. Even if all the young voters had turned out, it wouldn't have changed the result.

So those who did vote but voted based on the lies they believed? That's what we have to change for the future.

Yes, there does seem to be quite a few posters on the news & politics board who are anti - everything. Hours are spent on here linking endless articles & surveys, it’s not what your average grandparent would spend their leisure time doing - but takes all sorts as the saying goes.

And there are some posters who will cling to what they believe in the face of all evidence to the contrary and like to poke fun at others.

Takes all sorts I suppose.

There are, so I read, an annual average of 21 MPs in the ERG group.

I wonder how much difference they make if all other MPs have decided they are very wrong in their views on leaving the EU, and that the power base they have created for themselves is not Conservative.

The next question would be - 'How many MPs feel the ERG views are not Conservative and are willing to do something about it'. More than at one time, I would say. However, is it enough?

I now believe the Conservative party will have to destroy itself completely, in order for a smaller party to be reborn and that this depends on PR. So I am not looking forward to the appauling far-right decisions stoping any time in the near future. But this could change.

PunkWomble The establishment got the good kicking it deserved from those of us who live in the real world.

I can see how that has all been really tough for you, and for many others, but has anything actually improved since 2016? It was the establishment who ran the leave campaign, and who are still in charge now.

If anyone wants to listen to the Grimsby fisherman who now know they were lied to I'd recommend:

www.arte.tv/fr/videos/104796-002-A/arte-regards-brexit-la-frustration-des-pecheurs-britanniques/

But it'll make you weep.

^ The establishment got the good kicking it deserved from those of us who live in the real world.^

I have to admit that among the shock, disappointment and heartbreak over the referendum result the one, brief, bright moment was the exit of Cameron. But that was because I thought it would be the end of austerity. I was very much mistaken, of course; austerity wasn't just Cameron and Osbourne, it's the tories. It's bred into them and never leaves them... Keep the poor and disadvantaged poor and disadvantaged. And make sure that any money in the economy trickles upwards to the wealthy...

I hope you didn't vote tory in 2010 and 2015. PunkWomble...

Kandinsky

Yes, there does seem to be quite a few posters on the news & politics board who are anti - everything. Hours are spent on here linking endless articles & surveys, it’s not what your average grandparent would spend their leisure time doing - but takes all sorts as the saying goes.

Some posters are quite 'political' - others, not so much.

I don't believe being a grandparent has much to do with it.

And there's no rules about being a 'grandparent' - apart from being kind and loving to your grandchildren!

I doubt anyone is 'anti' everything...

Yes, it does take "all sorts...". Before the age of the internet, we nattered to each other - or wrote disgruntled letters to The Times ("Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells"). Now we have social media and we make use of it to air our views. To be expected I would have thought.

I voted for Brexit because The European Union is a failing political construct which started off as a trading unit. Germany and France are completely dominating Europe and the poorer countries in Europe can do nothing about it. I prefer for UK to make its own mistakes and not have them imposed. Illustrations of how an independent UK can make decisions more quickly than the EU is in its response to vaccine production and to the war in Ukraine. Of course, there are bound to be ramifications for leaving the EU. However, this non-racist, educated person would still vote to leave.

I like all the links and quotes, it's a great resource of information that might not possibly come my way. I see it as a good way to learn and broaden my mind.

As we are on the news and politics thread I imagined that most people on here would be hungry for news and data on current events, history and different political opinions. Unless of course the only reason for joining in with these threads is to keep driving home the same, ageing, entrenched views.

As for the phrase 'those of us who live in the real world' is a funny one isn't it? We are all in the real world with all the pressures, worries and hopes that brings. It's a lazy way of dismissing any view that does not match yours.

Punkwomble, now that you have got what you voted for and the Eastern Europeans who you believe were undercutting the local Labour Market are no longer doing so, has anything got better for you? Not being goady, just wonder if your reasons have given you what you wanted or were promised?