Sir Anthony Gormley whose mother was German has just applied to become a German citizen and of course an EU citizen. He tells the truth about brexit. It is time more public figures told the truth about this self afflicted disaster.
www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/jun/04/antony-gormley-to-become-german-citizen-due-to-tragedy-of-brexit
Dickens
Oh absolutely.
RichmondPark
Unless of course the only reason for joining in with these threads is to keep driving home the same, ageing, entrenched views.
Remainers are surely the guilty ones there! 
I prefer for UK to make its own mistakes.
Plenty to enjoy now then.
Remainers are surely the guilty ones there!
The Remain voters on here do draw their views with a constant supply of new evidence and data so these are developing views, not old ones.
Kandinsky
Yes, there does seem to be quite a few posters on the news & politics board who are anti - everything. Hours are spent on here linking endless articles & surveys, it’s not what your average grandparent would spend their leisure time doing - but takes all sorts as the saying goes.
For those of us who are not your average grandparent - we are exceptional, rare, distinctive, special, unique and individual. I know which I'd rather be.
I havnt read the clip but Anthony Gormley may have a wait. I was born in Germany with a German mum and came to the uk as a baby. She had lost her home and possessions.
I started the citizenship process after Brexit, over 5 years ago and cutting the too long and frustrating story short, am still waiting.
Maybe he has more clout than me ...I expect he does, but
I have no more energy.
If there was any evidence at all that Brexit was benefiting the UK I would be the first to acknowledge it.
Maybe leavers would like to list the current benefits or accept they were wrong!.
Kandinsky
Yes, there does seem to be quite a few posters on the news & politics board who are anti - everything. Hours are spent on here linking endless articles & surveys, it’s not what your average grandparent would spend their leisure time doing - but takes all sorts as the saying goes.
If only If more people did take a keener interest in news and politics and bothered to read quality editorial of all political stripes in newspapers, journals and online publications they would know and understand much more about that is going on. We can only make informed decisions if we engage actively in acquiring information and think critically about it. Almost every negative effect of Brexit was predicted and yet our democratic process allowed an electorate, many of whom did not know or understand the facts, to make a critical decision which is now crippling the country and will set economic development back decades, a decision which is now affecting our children's and our grandchildren's futures.
From Humphrey Hawksley’s 2009 book ^Democracy Kills^:
For many years Western governments have insisted that the only way to achieve long-term prosperity and political stability is through a combination of free-market economics and democratic government. Yet, all evidence now indicates that this argument is both flawed and can also be the direct cause of war, disease and poverty.
From Pakistan to Zimbabwe, from the Palestinian territories to the former Yugoslavia, from Georgia to Haiti attempts to install democracy through elections have produced high levels of corruption and violence. Parliaments represent not broad constituencies but vested interests and, amid much fanfare, constitutions are written, but rarely upheld.
When I first read this book, I thought his views were only relative to other unstable countries. Now the UK has a government controlled by immensely wealthy donors with vested interests, some of that money very dirty, a manufactured class war, millions of sick people who cannot get adequate and timely healthcare and increasing levels of poverty, I think his views could equally be applied here. I am not arguing again democracy, of course not, but in the hands of a politically uninterested, politically illiterate or politically gullible electorate, democracy is an equally dangerous thing.
For those of us who are not your average grandparent - we are exceptional, rare, distinctive, special, unique and individual. I know which I'd rather be
You don’t have to be interested in politics & spend half your time on social media to be all those things.
I admire people who ignore all the arguing on social media & spend their time doing other things - they’re still interested in politics but have better, more productive things to do.
I’m actually envious.
Kandinsky
*For those of us who are not your average grandparent - we are exceptional, rare, distinctive, special, unique and individual. I know which I'd rather be*
You don’t have to be interested in politics & spend half your time on social media to be all those things.
I admire people who ignore all the arguing on social media & spend their time doing other things - they’re still interested in politics but have better, more productive things to do.
I’m actually envious.
A lot of incorrect assumptions there?
CaravanSerai
Whilst I agree with your assertion that folk should be more politically and economically aware. I do find that many who profess to be so are only in parochial terms. I find data is given showing how dreadful UK is doing very frequently without looking for alternative data especially from outside UK as comparisons.
Maybe leavers would like to list the current benefits or accept they were wrong!.
Please
CaravanSerai There's a very thin line between democracy and mob rule. If we are going to rely on "The Will Of The People" The "People" need to thoroughly understand what they are advocating. We've always relied on being a parliamentary democracy but for that to succeed people need to trust their elected representatives, which is not happening at the moment.
Whitewavemark2
Kandinsky
For those of us who are not your average grandparent - we are exceptional, rare, distinctive, special, unique and individual. I know which I'd rather be
You don’t have to be interested in politics & spend half your time on social media to be all those things.
I admire people who ignore all the arguing on social media & spend their time doing other things - they’re still interested in politics but have better, more productive things to do.
I’m actually envious.A lot of incorrect assumptions there?
Catch-22
Ignore Kandinsky's post and it stands in all its incorrectness.
Answer Kandinsky's post and out ourselves as one of those she thinks is a sad-sack no-life.
Decisions, decisions...
volver you make me laugh 
Anyway, apologies I’m derailing the thread.
Nice one Volver
Katie59
Maybe leavers would like to list the current benefits or accept they were wrong!.
Please
Why ask we amateurs here rather than just repost the top 9 opportunities being considered by the professional Brexit opportunities minister. My life's certainly going to be easier...
1. Encourage fracking, shortcut rules on planning consultation via emergency act.
2. Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.
3. Remove precautionary principle restrictions (for instance) on early use of experimental treatments for seriously ill patients and GM crops.
4. Abolish rules around the size of vans that need an operator's licence.
5. Abolish EU limits on electrical power levels of electrically assisted pedal cycles.
6. Allow certain medical professionals, such as pharmacists and paramedics, to qualify in three years.
7. Remove requirements for agency workers to have all the attributes of a permanent employee.
8. Simplify the calculation of holiday pay (eg 12.07 percent of pay) to make it easier for businesses to operate.
9. Reduce requirements for businesses to conduct fixed wire testing and portable application testing.
Joelsnan
I think you need to read my post again.
The Guardian article which was linked in the OP says nothing about Gormley 'leaving' the UK , or giving up his UK passport. The BBC 'apology' is irrelevant.
Petera
Katie59
Maybe leavers would like to list the current benefits or accept they were wrong!.
PleaseWhy ask we amateurs here rather than just repost the top 9 opportunities being considered by the professional Brexit opportunities minister. My life's certainly going to be easier...
1. Encourage fracking, shortcut rules on planning consultation via emergency act.
2. Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.
3. Remove precautionary principle restrictions (for instance) on early use of experimental treatments for seriously ill patients and GM crops.
4. Abolish rules around the size of vans that need an operator's licence.
5. Abolish EU limits on electrical power levels of electrically assisted pedal cycles.
6. Allow certain medical professionals, such as pharmacists and paramedics, to qualify in three years.
7. Remove requirements for agency workers to have all the attributes of a permanent employee.
8. Simplify the calculation of holiday pay (eg 12.07 percent of pay) to make it easier for businesses to operate.
9. Reduce requirements for businesses to conduct fixed wire testing and portable application testing.
That's one very scary list of 'benefits', Petera.
Nothing like cutting regulations to make everyone less safe or encouraging the use of fossil fuels when they really should be eliminated.
OK I accept that leavers cannot list the current benefits.
It’s not about being politically aware, its listening to the arguments and deciding which was true, logical, reasonable and likely to be achieved.
I my assessment, the Brexit arguments were none of the above, moreover the aggressive tone the were conducted in angered the EU. It’s quite simple if you want to leave any partnership you have to negotiate in good faith, or as the weaker partner you will get a very bad deal.
We were and we did.
Petera
How many of those are actual changes rather than dreams, many would need changes in legislation
MaizieD That's one very scary list of 'benefits'
How can you be so negative? We'll be able to whiz around on our gerrymandered (option 9) high-powered electric bicycles (option 5) cobbled together from an old vacuum cleaner motor (options 2 and 9).
And when the whole thing explodes underneath us we have the comfort of knowing that there will be a group of undertrained paramedics (option 6) to get us to hospital where the injuries will be treated using experimental drugs (option 3).
This is exactly what we voted for when we voted for Brexit.
We aren’t going to get more powerful vacuum cleaners as Henry’s about the only ones made in the U.K. - they are powerful enough plus he wouldn’t be able to be exported if he was, and if this is one of the top benefits then all the upheaval, cost and division will be worth it eh?
Petera
MaizieD That's one very scary list of 'benefits'
How can you be so negative? We'll be able to whiz around on our gerrymandered (option 9) high-powered electric bicycles (option 5) cobbled together from an old vacuum cleaner motor (options 2 and 9).
And when the whole thing explodes underneath us we have the comfort of knowing that there will be a group of undertrained paramedics (option 6) to get us to hospital where the injuries will be treated using experimental drugs (option 3).
This is exactly what we voted for when we voted for Brexit.
???
Excellent. I'm converted. Yay! Brexit is Brilliant ?
Petera
But, I do wonder, once again, if any body bothered to read the booklet sent to all households in 2016. It stated arguments for being in the EU - stronger economy, cost of living and advantages and benefits we had. Also, what could happen if we left - potential economic disruption, reduced investment and difficulty in striking deals.
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