Speaking the truth about brexit

We all know that the Brexit propoganda was based on lies. Not spin, outright lies.

If people voted on the basis of those lies, believing them to be truths, then how can they get what they want; it didn't exist and we are condemned to a life that will be far more difficult than it ever needed to be.

volver

God, this makes me angry. I have no time for people saying they voted for what they thought was right. It was wrong and ill thought out and misguided. Should have paid more attention.

"I voted for my grandchildren's future".

Messed that up then.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?

Oh don't start.

Deflections won't work.

You voted to take us out the the EU for spurious, made up reasons that you decided were true even though they were manifestly lies and you're trying to make me look silly.

Won't work.

volver no deflection, just a fact.

Isn't this thread about truth and beliefs?

What you believe to be a "fact" isn't always true and to be honest, your record of identifying "facts" in referenda isn't so good right now.

Other than a pound of flesh from each and everyone who voted to leave what more do you want?

Many have said that it hasn’t gone how they envisaged, many have offered opinions on compromises.

It’s time to stop blaming people who exercised their free vote and look to the future for solutions, and I do not mean just rejoining the EU at any cost.

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

It’s time to stop blaming people who exercised their free vote and look to the future for solutions, and I do not mean just rejoining the EU at any cost.

Should we just move on? Should we just draw a line in the sand? Are people just tired of this now, and want us to get on with the job?

Where have I heard that before?

I will never stop blaming those who voted for this debacle. Never. That doesn't mean we don't try to find the best solution right now, but I will never stop blaming people who voted for this, whatever self-justifying excuses they come up with. It was the wrong thing to do.

DaisyAnne

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

Twice in the last few days DaisyAnne you've posted that you think a thread has run its course. Not your decision, either time.

It has certain run it's course for me when people start personal attacks volver. That is my decision.

certainly!

Not your decision to say if a thread has run its course. If you don't want to take part any more, that's entirely different.

A reminder. Cameron to the HoC 22/2/16. REsults of negotiations with the European Council

The fourth area in which we wanted to make significant changes was to protect our country from further European political integration and to increase powers for our national Parliament. Ever since we joined, Europe has been on the path to something called ever closer union. It means a political union. We have never liked it; we have never wanted it. Now Britain will be permanently and legally excluded from it. The text says that the treaties will be changed to make it clear that

“the Treaty references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”

^So as a result of this negotiation, Britain can never be part of a European superstate.^

The Council also agreed that ever closer union, which has been referred to in previous judgments of the European Court of Justice, does not offer a legal basis for extending the scope of any provisions of the treaties or EU secondary legislation. People used to talk about a multi-speed Europe; now we have a clear agreement that different countries are not only travelling at different speeds but ultimately heading to different destinations. I would argue that is fundamental change in the way this organisation works.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160222/debtext/160222-0001.htm

Truth?

volver

God, this makes me angry. I have no time for people saying they voted for what they thought was right. It was wrong and ill thought out and misguided. Should have paid more attention.

"I voted for my grandchildren's future".

Messed that up then.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?
Some might think that is illogical.

Surely some in Scotland may think leaving the RUK might be wrong and ill thought out and misguided?

And none of us knows what the future holds.

Perhaps we should all be working together to reach a solution with the EU.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?
Some might think that is illogical.

I find it perfectly logical that the Scots, having been dragged out of the EU against their will, find it attractive to leave the union that hasn't worked in their interests to join a union that does...

volver

Not your decision to say if a thread has run its course. If you don't want to take part any more, that's entirely different.

Are you truly saying you may limit what I say on here? "I think" is an opinion. It certainly isn't a decision for anyone else.

I truly think (opinion) that if GN has one rule "You may not make personal attacks" this forum would be a better place.

You stated that you think this thread has run its course.

Where I come from "run its course" means that its come to an end and there shouldn't be any more posting, or that what posting there is is a waste of time. Yet I'm the one being accused of trying to limit what people post.

I need to think that one through a bit. ??‍♀️

volver

You stated that you think this thread has run its course.

Where I come from "run its course" means that its come to an end and there shouldn't be any more posting, or that what posting there is is a waste of time. Yet I'm the one being accused of trying to limit what people post.

I need to think that one through a bit. ??‍♀️

I did not state anything. By continuing this, it is now becoming a personal attack on me, following your attack on GG13.

My post, which you could have checked, said: "I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course." I am quite sure all on GN can make their own decisions about an opinion offered by another member.

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

That's a statement. A statement of what you think. Which I did check. One thing that I'm known for is "checking"

It was an opinion, made in a post which you may choose to call a statement. But what difference does that make? I am, although you are telling me I am not, allowed to express an opinion that a thread has run its course. This is not the same, in any way, as deciding for anyone else that the thread has run its course.

I have no quarrel with you Volver but you certainly seem determined to pick one with me. However, I am stuck on the sofa until I can move today. So, if you really want to play this game I am happy to continue.

I don't think its for anybody to post that they think a thread has run its course. How do you get to decide that? You can think a thread is boring, or off topic, or straying into territory that doesn't relate to the title, but I disagree strongly with your opinion that it has run its course. Saying it has run its course implies that you think there is no more to be said on the matter. So you think that anything that comes after is not worth bothering about. And nobody, not me and not you, has the right to decide that a thread is finished with.

I'll not be posting on this topic anymore.

I said why I thought it had run its course volver.

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

I stand by that as my opinion. Regardless of how hard you try, you cannot show that I thought I had "the right" or was, in any way, attempting to decide that others should/had finished with the thread - because I wasn't.

However, while attacking me for something I didn't do you now say I don't think its for anybody to post that they think a thread has run its course. That is an attempt to tell everyone what they may or may not do.

So you are, without any evidence, suggesting I was telling people what to do when I was only voicing a personal opinion but then ending (or so you say) your posting by telling everyone what they may not post.

I do think that your continuous attack on my comment was far more because of the reason I gave for making it than for any verifiable indication that I was deciding something for others.

MaizieD

*I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?*
Some might think that is illogical.

I find it perfectly logical that the Scots, having been dragged out of the EU against their will, find it attractive to leave the union that hasn't worked in their interests to join a union that does...

I find it perfectly logical that the Scots, having been dragged out of the EU against their will, find it attractive to leave the union that hasn't worked in their interests to join a union that does...

I follow the logic that the majority, not all, of Scots voted to remain in the EU and would like to rejoin that union because circumstances have changed since then.

However, by the same logic the majority of Scots must have been happy with a union which you state did not work in their interests because they voted to remain in the United Kindgom two years earlier. Presumably the majority, with a high turnout, was happy enough to remain part of the UK so it cannot have been seen as not working in their interests in 2014.

' I don't think it's for anybody to post that they think a thread has run its course. '
What?

I think this thread has been done to death and.....run it's course!

From afar, every single person I know thought it was a bad decision to leave and wondered what you were thinking as a nation to do this. It has been even worse than we thought. One day in the not so distant future there will be yet another European war and Britain will be isolated ,cosying up to its American friends.