Independence in the Modern World. Wealthier, Happier, Fairer: Why Not Scotland?

Callistemon21

John Laurie ?

Born Dumfries
Died Chalfont Saint Peter.

A citizen of the United Kingdom like so many of my Scottish friends.

Is that meant to be a defence of the Union?

John Laurie ?

Born Dumfries
Died Chalfont Saint Peter.

A citizen of the United Kingdom like so many of my Scottish friends.

Urmstongran Tue 14-Jun-22 19:53:49

Thanks for your advice UG, any more ideas are welcome:

Why not lobby the industrialists for building a semiconductor fab or a battery manufacturing plant

Semiconductor manufacturer Diodes Incorporated has received £13.7 million in funding from Scottish Enterprise to help future growth at its plant in Greenock.

, build an hydroelectric power plant

Four run-of-river hydropower plants have been successfully completed on time in the Scottish Highlands, despite restrictions due to the coronavirus pandemic.

and a Spaceport,

The Sutherland spaceport is being developed by Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE)

fund new tourist structures

....the launch of the new industry strategy ‘Scotland Outlook 2030: responsible tourism for a sustainable future’.

This has been developed through an equal partnership between the Scottish Tourism Alliance, Scottish Government, VisitScotland, Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise and Skills Development Scotland.

improve the transportation infrastructure,

Scotland has delivered the iconic £1.35 billion Queensferry Crossing and the M8/M73/M74 Motorway Improvements projects and are progressing the design work for both the A9 and A96 Dualling programmes to name but a few.

On rail, as part of our £3.5 billion capital investment we are progressing our plans for the Edinburgh to Glasgow Improvement programme (EGIP), Aberdeen to Inverness rail line and the Highland Mainline.

finance a thousand or two EVs charging points

Scotland has been highlighted as having the highest concentration of rapid charging points for plug-in vehicles, according to a new report from the Department for Transport (DfT). Scotland has 8.9 rapid charging points per 100,000 of population, while London has just 4.9 by comparison.

This will happen to you too Scotland.

Doomed, we're all doomed....

Zonne

I’ve read the paper. I think it’s weak - again - on economic policy, which has always been a bit of an Achilles heel for the SNP. Their swerve to the left socially rather left behind their economic policies, and theyve bern playing catch up ever since.

However, a weakness of the SNP isn’t, of course, synonymous with a weakness of an independent Scotland.

I worked closely with the Scottish government and civil service on a number of the policy areas the paper touches on, and can say that decisions taken by the Westminster government frequently undermined programmes which had significant electoral and community support in Scotland, and those decisions heavily influenced my vote.

I am, btw, English, and never once felt (a few cyber-nat fruit loops excepted) that the IndyRef campaign was anti-English. Or even particularly anti-UK government. It was far more positive and forward looking, much more pro (a vision of, I recognise there are others) Scotland.

Thank you Zonne

But then what will all the North Britishers moan about? How stupid their fellow Scots are? Probably. It'll make them feel useful, or something. Not right, or supportive of their compatriots, or even admirable. But it'll be a way for them to fill their days while the rest of us get on with building a country

So Brexity. This will happen to you too Scotland ... it’ll be so close - your ‘Remainers’ (for the Union) will be just the same as we’ve got here. Embittered people who cannot accept the democratic vote because it didn’t go ‘their’ way. It’s wearing. They will try and smear the process, the perceived lack of transparency, the whole shebang.

Urmstongran

My personal guess is that another referendum would yield the same result as the first. This said, the whole idea of another referendum is as incoherent as it seems.

But if Scottish voters want one, why not? I’d be tempted to say ‘you’ve had one’ but this boil needs lancing, especially since Brexit, which I can understand.

If Scotland isn't doing well, it is because the government is too busy in their vane "fight for independence", instead of developing policies to support and enhance the local economy. Why not lobby the industrialists for building a semiconductor fab or a battery manufacturing plant, build an hydroelectric power plant and a Spaceport, fund new tourist structures, improve the transportation infrastructure, finance a thousand or two EVs charging points, whatever. Just set aside this quest for a damaging independence, and rebuilding the Hadrian Wall.

Maybe, Scotland needs an election instead of a referendum...

Vain.

We had an election last year. SNP won. Again. ?

I’ve read the paper. I think it’s weak - again - on economic policy, which has always been a bit of an Achilles heel for the SNP. Their swerve to the left socially rather left behind their economic policies, and theyve bern playing catch up ever since.

However, a weakness of the SNP isn’t, of course, synonymous with a weakness of an independent Scotland.

I worked closely with the Scottish government and civil service on a number of the policy areas the paper touches on, and can say that decisions taken by the Westminster government frequently undermined programmes which had significant electoral and community support in Scotland, and those decisions heavily influenced my vote.

I am, btw, English, and never once felt (a few cyber-nat fruit loops excepted) that the IndyRef campaign was anti-English. Or even particularly anti-UK government. It was far more positive and forward looking, much more pro (a vision of, I recognise there are others) Scotland.

Callistemon21

Good luck!!
?

That was to volver

Good luck!!
?

My personal guess is that another referendum would yield the same result as the first. This said, the whole idea of another referendum is as incoherent as it seems.

But if Scottish voters want one, why not? I’d be tempted to say ‘you’ve had one’ but this boil needs lancing, especially since Brexit, which I can understand.

If Scotland isn't doing well, it is because the government is too busy in their vane "fight for independence", instead of developing policies to support and enhance the local economy. Why not lobby the industrialists for building a semiconductor fab or a battery manufacturing plant, build an hydroelectric power plant and a Spaceport, fund new tourist structures, improve the transportation infrastructure, finance a thousand or two EVs charging points, whatever. Just set aside this quest for a damaging independence, and rebuilding the Hadrian Wall.

Maybe, Scotland needs an election instead of a referendum...

Well Callistemon, what you need and what you get are two different things. We're not here to save you from yourselves.

Blossoming

Aveline we’ve had Tories in charge at Westminster for 12 years. They have sold assets, removed rights, stripped services, cut support and piled on ‘austerity’ for everyone except themselves and their chums. What more will it take for the electorate to get rid of them? It’s not just Boris, it’s the whole stinking rotten lot of them.

Anyway, Sorry to hijack the thread, I’m off now.

What we need is for Scotand to vote Labour in a GE and for all the red wall to vote Labour again.

I’d like Scotland to have independence if that’s what they want.

Casdon

Blossoming

volver

What happens if we then have a competent, caring government in Westminster which is intent on improving everything?

When was the last time we had one of them?

Well it certainly wasn’t the one headed by David Cameron!

It was Gordon Brown, who is of course Scottish.

I was going to mention the Scottish Prime Ministers and ministers we have and over many years.

For those North Britishers that think the only reason we want independence is Big Dog, think again. paddyann's wanted it 55 years. Me, not that long, but certainly since before Johnson was making up stories at the Spectator.

I wish that all those who do Scotland down would realise that voting for the SNP right now is a way to get to independence, and that once we have it you can vote for who you like, even Scottish Tories, if that's what rocks your boat.

But then what will all the North Britishers moan about? How stupid their fellow Scots are? Probably. It'll make them feel useful, or something. Not right, or supportive of their compatriots, or even admirable. But it'll be a way for them to fill their days while the rest of us get on with building a country.

Aveline we’ve had Tories in charge at Westminster for 12 years. They have sold assets, removed rights, stripped services, cut support and piled on ‘austerity’ for everyone except themselves and their chums. What more will it take for the electorate to get rid of them? It’s not just Boris, it’s the whole stinking rotten lot of them.

Anyway, Sorry to hijack the thread, I’m off now.

tidyskatemum Independence under the SNP

If you want to get rid of the SNP the quickest way is to become independent.

Ok, so Sturgeon isn’t amoral like Johnson but she has been in charge in Scotland since 2014, during which time the SNP have piled up examples of economic mismanagement - ferries, Prestwick Airport, BiFab for starters. Higher taxation has resulted in fewer tax receipts. Then there was her pledge on education - standards have gone steadily downhill. They couldn’t even sort out the census. Planned road improvements have recently been scrapped and councils are being squeezed so that they can be blamed for service failures, not the SNP. And don’t get me started on all the gender rubbish.

The UK will get rid of Johnson soon enough. Independence under the SNP will only make Scotland poorer - and without anyone else to blame for once.

On way!

If the Scottish public vote for independence there'll be plenty of room for you VioletSky as all of the people who generate economic activity in Scotland will have rushed south.
Seriously, under the current Scottish govt education, health, business, transport etc etc etc has plummeted. They have had fifteen years to demonstrate efficacy and have failed on every level to such an extent that they've withdrawn from external assessment and are now reducing Audit Scotland's budget. Legal documents are withheld or eventually produced widely redacted. Millions have been wasted on failed legal cases, propping up appallingly run businesses and so on. It's all on record. SNP fans like to go on about the freebies but miss the bigger picture. I just wish the Scottish government would work constructively with the various UK governments for the benefit of all our people.
Boris and the bad Tories will be gone in the end. It won't be long now.

Exactly Casdon.

Blossoming

volver

What happens if we then have a competent, caring government in Westminster which is intent on improving everything?

When was the last time we had one of them?

Well it certainly wasn’t the one headed by David Cameron!

It was Gordon Brown, who is of course Scottish.

Yes!

Serious answer! Come and help us build a country

If you get independence, can I come?

Serious question