Refugees

^ Let’s hear your solutions for the problem^

The solution to the problem has been posted over and over again, in social media, in the press and anywhere that people discuss it.

The problem is that these refugees have nowhere in their own countries to apply to the UK for asylum and the UK insists that they can only apply for asylum once they are in the UK. BUT, they have no safe routes to get to the UK to do so (which is just what the government hopes will stop them coming). Give them safe routes to enter the UK and the people trafficking is immediately stopped. End of problem.

Of course, you seem to think that there are too many people in the UK already (I'm being generous here). Which is a completely different matter.

If you read CaravanSerai's post at 10.58 you will see that we do have the capacity to build enough to house our population.

As to the crumbling infrastructure, that is a purely UK problem stemming from a government which is not prepared to spend any money on it.

There, sorted for you

Why hasn’t the government ever taken up France’s offer of a processing office in Calais? That way we can welcome refugees ready and willing to work and contribute to U.K. society.

We could even get them jobs before they enter the U.K. Just think of the potential clinicians, agriculture workers, etc.

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

Chestnut

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

That's the point we don't know?

And at that time I'm telling you about, the guy I saw was not an isolated case.

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

I agree with LauraNorder.

So did I (and it's not often that I do). That was a lovely post.

Sone excellent posts on here from Lauranorder MOMB whitewave and Maizie

I hope those saying “what is the answer” are actually reading them….

MaizieD

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

It was on the news!

10:58CaravanSerai

There are currently 28 millions homes i.e. 3.5 million homes for every 1% of developed land. So we could build another 3.5 million homes together with all the necessary infrastructure and still only use another 1%.

Yes lets build millions of homes until England's green and pleasant land is no more and there's not a blade of grass left, why not we can let all and sundry in dinghy boats by the thousands or why not open borders then they can all come that's Labour /Lib Dems stance.

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

Visgir1

Chestnut

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

That's the point we don't know?

And at that time I'm telling you about, the guy I saw was not an isolated case.

One of the things I'm interested in is risk management; what is the likelihood of things happening?

So lets think about this. What is the likelihood of a 40 year old person in (say) Iraq, finding out they have a serious heart condition, then deciding to cross the middle east and Europe by foot or in the back of a lorry? Then they get to the Channel Coast, and spend weeks or months in the camps near Calais, and then decide to risk their lives in a flimsy dinghy. Then they get to these shores, and say to themselves, "thank goodness, now I can steal medical treatment from the British"

Its just not realistic is it? And the Consultant doesn't know anything about these people that he treats other than that they are ill. Or if he does, then he was sharing privileged information about patients. Surely that's not allowed? People are getting angry because they think somebody is getting something for nothing.

Of course it's realistic. People are risking their lives to come here. Why? Maybe they want to work, but if they are seriously ill or pregnant they know they will get free treatment on the NHS.

So?

Visgirl suggested that people are coming here just for the medical treatment. Other people maintain that the dinghies are full of fit young men looking for economic benefits. Now apparently they are pregnant women who don't want to stay in France.

You can't have it all ways. It's all starting to sound a bit desperate.

Chestnut

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

None of them Scottish then? Or Welsh? Or from Northern Ireland?

Or is it only the English who are allowed to have beautiful flats?

Oh don't be silly Maudi. Stop ranting this ill-informed, inaccurate rubbish. 8% is developed. 92% is not.

Only 1% more would provide 3.5 million homes and related infrastructure but you need a long-term political vision and funding to build it. Over the last 12 years of Tory rule, we have had 16 changes in Secretaries of State for Housing (5) and Ministers of of State for Housing (11). No-one stays in a job long enough to create a visionary plan or make any substantive change.

The government's own food security report.

In 2020 71% of UK land area was used for agricultural production, the majority of this being grassland for grazing rather than crops.

So much land used to fatten animals for slaughter, land which would feed far more people if it was used to grow arable crops. We need to start thinking about what we eat, reducing our meat intake and growing more grain instead of relying on other countries and being at the mercy of their weather (Canada) and geopolitical conflict (Russian and Ukraine).

Stop thinking that the UK is full. It isn't. We just don't use land efficiently.

Capitalism depends on people working. Economic growth depends on people working. How are you going to do it without people to work?

volver

Chestnut

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

None of them Scottish then? Or Welsh? Or from Northern Ireland?

Or is it only the English who are allowed to have beautiful flats?

None of them were Scottish or Welsh or Irish, one was English. What is your point?

Chestnut

MaizieD

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

It was on the news!

On 'the news'? Which news?

Every single pregnant woman who risks her life, and that of her unborn baby, in a perilous channel crossing is doing it just for the sake of getting a free birth on our NHS? ?

I don't believe it.

volver

So?

Visgirl suggested that people are coming here just for the medical treatment. Other people maintain that the dinghies are full of fit young men looking for economic benefits. Now apparently they are pregnant women who don't want to stay in France.

You can't have it all ways. It's all starting to sound a bit desperate.

Yes, all those people and more.

I don't know where you live Chestnut. But you were telling a story about how the beautiful flat, presumably somewhere in the UK, had been occupied by many people but only one of them was English. Well there's lots of people in these islands who could have occupied that flat, but you make an exception for the English, whom you are singling out. By implication, the only people you think were entitled to stay there were English.

Well, that's us told.

Maybe we need a radically different approach to immigration?

The world is changing, thanks to climate change. There will be a massive exodus of people from uninhabitable parts of the planet.

In order to accommodate them in countries slightly less affected, we will need to reduce our native population. A cap on the family size of the current population maybe?

MaizieD

Chestnut

MaizieD

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

It was on the news!

On 'the news'? Which news?

Every single pregnant woman who risks her life, and that of her unborn baby, in a perilous channel crossing is doing it just for the sake of getting a free birth on our NHS? ?

I don't believe it.

A heavily pregnant woman came ashore on the south coast yesterday amongst the 444 who arrived that day. I don't know how many more were pregnant. So why are they doing it? They can give birth in France. Why risk a channel crossing?

volver

I don't know where you live Chestnut. But you were telling a story about how the beautiful flat, presumably somewhere in the UK, had been occupied by many people but only one of them was English. Well there's lots of people in these islands who could have occupied that flat, but you make an exception for the English, whom you are singling out. By implication, the only people you think were entitled to stay there were English.

Well, that's us told.

I never said the English were the only people entitled to live there. I was simply quoting figures to answer another post. You have a clever way of twisting words.

Chestnut

MaizieD

Chestnut

MaizieD

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

It was on the news!

On 'the news'? Which news?

Every single pregnant woman who risks her life, and that of her unborn baby, in a perilous channel crossing is doing it just for the sake of getting a free birth on our NHS? ?

I don't believe it.

A heavily pregnant woman came ashore on the south coast yesterday amongst the 444 who arrived that day. I don't know how many more were pregnant. So why are they doing it? They can give birth in France. Why risk a channel crossing?

Oh, Chestnut

I'm losing the will to live.

One pregnant woman disembarks and you've decided that the whole lot come here for free NHS births. (shakes head in disbelief)

And then we'd have the same problems China is experiencing. We'd also need immigrants to do all the work.