Health Secretary says no more money for NHS

vegansrock

What about the £350m a week for the NHS which we would be saving after Brexit?

Quite - ha, ha!

The writing was on the wall in 2010 when it was just getting to be really quite good - deliberate underfunding so they could flog it off to their pals (an probably themselves too) ....

Make it so bad that the 'great unwashed' will accept anything to make it better .... that's exactly what they are doing, and it is working, sadly - just awful.

janipans

Whilst we have cause to be very grateful to the NHS for life saving treatment, they need to work smarter before receiving yet more funding! It is wasteful and inefficient. As an example, my husband does not drive and the hospital he needs to visit is not on a bus/train route, so the only option is for me to drive him.
They will not make appointments by telephone or online, the only option is to wait for an appointments letter, by which time, we/I may have made other arrangements. Yesterday, I changed my longstanding hair appointment and a meeting in order to get hubby to an 11am appointment, only to find that a doctor had not turned up an there was a 2 hour wait. There had made no attempt to contact us yet they must have known there would be a problem from the beginning of the day. We elected not to wait for 2 hours but they would not rearrange the appointment there and then ... we have to wait for another letter! There is no consideration for the patient only their system.
We also were told to empty 60 boxes of unused, untouched, in date, double plastic wrapped dialysis fluids down the drain as they would not take them back. We also had to put boxes of unused plastic wrapped tubes, dressings, etc into medical waste disposal. What a waste of NHS funds!
I also had a small op which they brought forward. BUT, they insisted on doing another pre-op visit/tests etc, even though they had only done exactly the same tests 2 days before (for the later op!) No common sense, just tick-box mentality!
Just what are the managers managing? If any private enterprise used the same methodology they would be out of business in a flash!

Good grief, really, beggars belief that about the appointment and the pre-op visits, just downright stupid!

Can understand re the fluids etc although it is a terrible waste, it's the same with medication, they won't take that back either ....

The unfortunate thing about managers is that they just manage without necessarily knowing very much about what they manage. Many of them will have done management studies courses and may not have a genuine interest in the NHS.

Two examples - not NHS related.

One friend (an accountant) did the accounts on a voluntary basis for a small housing association in the south. She expanded the association to the extent that it employed 50 people and had its own headquarters building. At that point she hired 3 directors for each of the divisions. The recruitment process was such that the candidates were interviewed by a large panel, which included her and some trustees as well staff from the specialist recruitment agency.

Those chosen had no particular interest in housing associations - it was just a step on the ladder to higher things.
After a few years, the Chair of the Trustees ( a retired CEO of a household name building society) decided to finally retire from voluntary work. My friend did not get on with the new Chair and did not agree with all the proposals put forward by the 3 directors. She arrived at work one day to be told that she was no longer required and to leave her car keys. She was devastated, as you can imagine. The association lasted little more than year, bankrupted by the grandiose ideas of those 3 directors.

The other example - a man who was in charge of the book restoration of the British Library. My OH asked how he could do this role when he had no idea about book restoration (which is extremely skilled) His response was that he didn't need to- he just had to manage the people that were experts.

There must be hundreds of people in the NHS at different levels who may well have the ability to manage staff.

Many of the managers in the NHS are doctors and nurses.

I was a manager. Not in the NHS. Once I managed salesmen, I've never sold anything in my life. I was managing the people who are experts. I'm always amused by the people that say they don't need so many managers. Try that for a couple of weeks and see where you end up.

On the subject of appointments - here in France a different system is operated. You're ill, you go to the doctor who will give you an ordnance (prescription) for whatever basic treatment you need - blood tests, ex-rays, physio etc. When the results come back, these will be discussed with you and he will give you a letter for whatever clinician you need to see. He will probably give you a few names. He might even make the appointment for you.

But now there is a computer system which you can go on, read the biogs of the specialists that you need to see and you make your appointment on line to suit you. Having done that you will receive a confirmation email and also at least one reminder just before your appointment. If a cancellation occurs you will receive an email asking if you want to move your appointment further.

Over the past year we have both had appointments with specialists and have seen them on time.

And there are still hospitals equivalent to the old cottage hospitals for those people who need fairly long care before they can return home or for those who need hospice care.

I am sure people on here will have different experiences of medicine in France. Being over our three score years and ten we are now needing more medical care and we have no complaints about service and we have also seen some friends with terminal illnesses who have been well cared for throughout.

volver

I was a manager. Not in the NHS. Once I managed salesmen, I've never sold anything in my life. I was managing the people who are experts. I'm always amused by the people that say they don't need so many managers. Try that for a couple of weeks and see where you end up.

I'm not saying that fewer managers are needed. What I am saying is that in many instances managers have no idea about the nature of the work performed by those that they are managing.

AGAA4

Many of the managers in the NHS are doctors and nurses.

That's good to know but equally there are many who don't.

Dinahmo it does depend on what the manager does. Some don't need to be medically trained to do their jobs and some do.
My son was a manager for the NHS. He worked on resources. That meant trying to get medical equipment to where it was needed eg dialysis machines so that some hospitals who had very few would get them from somewhere else.
My DD as a nurse manager has to be medically trained to do her job.

Pharmacists are now being trained to take on duties that formerly were carried out by GPs. One I know has to pay her own travel expenses to the training hub and will not receive a pay rise when she gains her new qualification. You can bet that Boris and his ilk will be accessing private health care rather than nipping along to Boots.

Calendargirl

growstuff

"It will provide you with all medical, dental and nursing care. Everyone – rich or poor, man, woman or child-can use it or any part of it. There are no charges, except for a few special items. There are no insurance qualifications. But it is not a “charity”. You are all paying for it, mainly as taxpayers, and it will relieve your money worries in time of illness."

But this is nearly 75 years ago.

So many more treatments, operations, procedures, tests, scans, available nowadays. It must have been so much simpler then.

And much cheaper. Just thinking of dental treatment. There would be fillings, extractions, false teeth. No implants, crowns, root canal treatments surely?

But over that time, you expect a similar or probably greater growth in GDP. Although, noticeably not over the last 12 years. There is more money. We could, if we were to have a government that chooses all the people, not just the wealthy, create a growing economy.

Obviously, a growing economy cannot be spent on health. It has to be used to cut taxes for the wealthy and paying extortionate salaries at the top of companies (plus bonuses).

I was reading an article on the destruction of the middle classes the other day. It seems as though, while the poor (under Conservatives) will always be with us, those on middle-incomes are about to join them.

I have read in the last week that an American health care company is already providing GP services to a group of surgeries. I would be interested to know what the patients think of the service. I don't pay my taxes to fund American shareholders. How much has Liz Truss already promised the Americans?

My son tells me that in his area some hospitals are now run by Virgin.
When I was a child (1930} the doctor would come out on Christmas Day ! and sit and have cup of tea! Cannot remember the last time I saw my GP. A paramedic comes instead.

On one occasion I had to wait seven hours in severe pain for the ambulance and then four hours in A& E.

“I get so irritated when the electorate turn on each other rather than the bastards who have caused all this.”

That’s exactly how I feel.

Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the electorate get their news and their political views from the proprietors of The Daily Express, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph and other news outlets controlled by tax dodging billionaires who have their own agenda.

It suits these newspaper proprietors to keep Boris Johnson in office.

The railway workers' stike isn't going to help the NHS.

The railway strike, which of course is the responsibilty of our negligent government, could well be blamed on the Labour Party.

The Tories talk about "Labour's strike" in a blatant attempt to derail the Labour challenge in the Wakefield by-election.

For everyone's information: www.intercare.org.uk/ will take unused medication and supplies to send to Africa where they are desperately needed. At our local hospice we can take back unused and unopened packets of pads, but we are not allowed take back drugs as you cannot know how they have been stored - i.e. kept on a hot windowsill, so they may not be efficacious any more.

nadateturbe

^I get so irritated when the electorate turn on each other rather than the bastards who have caused all this.^
I do too.

Me too, it happened with the referendum over whether to leave the EU when some people who voted remain blame those who voted leave rather than those in the leave campaign who told blatant lies.

Oh, I blame those who voted leave when those of us who voted remain saw though the lies in an instant. If it was blatant how could they not have noticed?

I know this view isn't popular.

Dinahmo

AGAA4

Many of the managers in the NHS are doctors and nurses.

That's good to know but equally there are many who don't.

That’s not actually true, medical and nursing managers do manage the doctors and nurses. In the higher echelons of management in the NHS and in the back room jobs like medical records, contracting, purchasing etc. where financial and other management skills are needed, people come from a very wide range of backgrounds, including all the healthcare professions.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

France spends considerably more per head on healthcare than the UK.

"In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD (£2,913 per person).

However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736)."

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29#:~:text=However%2C%20of%20the%20G7%20group,United%20States%20(%C2%A37%2C736)

I cannot comment on whether outcomes are better nor whether French healthcare is better organised and.or less wasteful. I am merely pointing out that France spends more.

The NHS needs to use the funds it has more efficiently. Examples given to me this weekend: a friend receiving cancer treatment has to visit two nearby hospitals with IT systems that won't 'talk' to each other.
One hospital got his medication prescription wrong. When friend noticed this, the system couldn't amend the prescription but rather had to issue a new one for the missing item which was couriered to his home. Money wasted, which better planning could have saved.

*The writing was on the wall in 2010 when it was just getting to be really quite good - deliberate underfunding so they could flog it off to their pals (an probably themselves too) ....

Make it so bad that the 'great unwashed' will accept anything to make it better .... that's exactly what they are doing, and it is working, sadly - just awful.*

Absolutely! For all its ‘inefficiencies’ the NHS is one of the best things about this country. We should be immensely proud of it. The government is happy to run it down at every opportunity so that people will believe there’s no alternative other than privatisation. This government is gaslighting and scamming the entire UK population - we must not fall for it at the next election.