RIP The right of a woman to choose

Kandinsky

It’s not anecdotal.

Babies are aborted because they’re female - this is a fact.
Some women have multiple abortions - also a fact.
Women can have an abortion up to 24 weeks for any reason. - fact.
Some women are pressed into abortion - fact.

So what you’re saying, Kandinsky is that you would prefer these women to undergo unsafe abortion and possible die, instead of having access to safe abortion? Because you’ll never stop abortions being carried out. You’ll just shift the circumstances of how the TOP is conducted?

The baby girls will be murdered at birth instead.
Any women who has multiple terminations has most likely got a lot more going on their life, such as an abusive partner, poverty, substance abuse - any number of things.
Who are we to judge whether anyone can have an abortion for any reason up to 24wks? Women sometimes don’t even know they are pregnant until late on.
Women will be pressured to conduct their own TOP or worse. Did you not read of the case last week of a man who tried to administer an abortifacient to his girlfriend.

No I didn’t read it SueDonim

But you’re right.
If a woman is pressured into abortion better it’s done safely.
And yes, multiple abortions will have reasons like you mention.
And better to abort a pregnancy than kill a new born baby.

I feel really ignorant now for what I’ve said - I just hadn’t thought it through properly.

I think it is something very positive and laudable when somebody changes their mind in the face of things they hadn't thought of.

Well done Kandinsky

I think better off women may cross into another state but poor ones may not be able to afford it. In some of arts of US blocks of states are adopting ruling so women might have to travel across a lot of states to reach one that will abort. No exceptions for victims of incest or rape either.

Haven't read the thread so apologies if someone has already posted this link to a TED talk given by Kathryn Kolbert: www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_kolbert_the_end_of_roe_v_wade_and_what_comes_next_for_reproductive_freedom

Very idealistic in a badass sort of way.

Tried to tidy up the link in the usual way but there seems to be some fault preventing tidy-mindedness.

Well said SueDonim (and Kandinsky for being open-minded).

I also feel that every child should be a wanted child. I know not all babies are planned and it's possible to love and care for an unwanted child, but I can't help feeling that if a woman has considered abortion that the child stands a good chance of not having a great start in life.

volver

Thank you.

It’s sad that those judges in America didn’t consider things properly and come to change their minds like Kandinsky bravely did. In fact, as I understand it, even such medical emergencies as ectopic pregnancy would be ineligible for abortion, which means of course, that these women will die.

baggs thanks for that. But in a way she is right that the only way to change anything is to get politically active.

Kandinsky

No I didn’t read it SueDonim

But you’re right.
If a woman is pressured into abortion better it’s done safely.
And yes, multiple abortions will have reasons like you mention.
And better to abort a pregnancy than kill a new born baby.

I feel really ignorant now for what I’ve said - I just hadn’t thought it through properly.

?

maddyone

It’s sad that those judges in America didn’t consider things properly and come to change their minds like Kandinsky bravely did. In fact, as I understand it, even such medical emergencies as ectopic pregnancy would be ineligible for abortion, which means of course, that these women will die.

The trouble is that this issue which is based on a particular religious belief, will not change.

They are simply impinging their belief on a whole population.

So many things are not what they seem, Kandinsky and it’s hard to sort out the truth. I’ve learnt the hard way, too!

Maizie I agree totally with you.

Whitewave2, get better soon

When I first moved to the US, I was horrified to see collection points for food banks in supermarkets. The UK, at that time, had similar collections for animal shelters.

Where’s the uproar about that change?

I was also shocked that there were metal detectors in schools because of knife crime. And now here we are www.tes.com/magazine/archive/exclusive-more-quarter-london-secondaries-using-knife-detectors

This government - and others outwith official political position, but still with influence - are creating an ever polarised, us-v-them society, in which it’s easy to collude because we aren’t ‘them’. Until one day, we are, and it’s too late.

this thread evolving is good
well done everyone x

Great to see women in the US out protesting about this ruling. I wonder if the anti-abortionists realise what they have taken on. Women won't be walked over any more.

“They are simply impinging their belief on a whole population.”

This is what I don’t understand Whitewavemark2 and I never will. I respect an individual’s religious convictions but nobody has the right to expect everybody to share them and to agitate for others to share them, sometimes with threats and violence.

I do hope The Handmaid’s Tale isn’t prophetic.

newnanny

I think better off women may cross into another state but poor ones may not be able to afford it. In some of arts of US blocks of states are adopting ruling so women might have to travel across a lot of states to reach one that will abort. No exceptions for victims of incest or rape either.

I think I heard Biden say that women who live in states where abortion is now illegal and who want a termination will be able to apply for help in travelling to states where it is legal. I will look to make sure this is correct.

Biden says women should be free to travel to other states to seek a termination but of course they have to be able to afford to travel so you are correct newnanny. Perhaps charities will help.

Here is Biden’s speech in full:

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/06/24/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-supreme-court-decision-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/

The trouble is that the antis are looking to make it illegal to seek an abortion anywhere.

They won’t stop at this.

Whitewavemark2

The trouble is that the antis are looking to make it illegal to seek an abortion anywhere.

They won’t stop at this.

Yes, and they plan to demand that phone companies hand over data from women’s phones so they can be tracked to see where they’ve visited.

A British friend living in the USA says the companies both her sons work for have pledged to help their employees as much as possible in obtaining the healthcare they need.

SueDonim

Whitewavemark2

The trouble is that the antis are looking to make it illegal to seek an abortion anywhere.

They won’t stop at this.

Yes, and they plan to demand that phone companies hand over data from women’s phones so they can be tracked to see where they’ve visited.

A British friend living in the USA says the companies both her sons work for have pledged to help their employees as much as possible in obtaining the healthcare they need.

SueDonim. As she pointed out, however, that this would mean you will have to share your need for an abortion with your employer.

I'm afraid some States may also go as far as to bring in an "aiding and abetting" law. This would stop the companies from helping.

It's just awful.

I feel sorry for the women in America. They have had their rights changed by a group of religious zealots who are prepared to allow people to carry guns which has resulted in lives including those of children in schools being lost yet can deny a woman to decide whether or not to bring another life into the world. What hypocrites.

One word: Gilead

First line in my post above should have read My daughter was talking about the offers being made this afternoon. - No idea where it went