Was Boris Johnson bullied into resigning?

nanna8 As far as Ukraine is concerned, Boris has really enjoyed playing the Churchillian frontman. I think the Ukrainians would have been much less enamoured of him had he been the Minister of Defence and the man actually responsible for organising the British response to the Russian invasion.

The person, who has actually got the arms and supplies on the ground in Ukraine and negotiated what would be supplied and how, is the Minister of Defence, Ben Wallace. He was highly tipped a s a potential Conservative leader, but he declined to stand. He also did not resign from Cabinet or offer an opinion on Johnson. He knows that the most important part of helping the Ukrainians is keeping the supplies flowing and ensuring the training of the Ukrainian army in a planned nd efficient manner.

I think it is a great shame he isn't standing, but can understand where he sees his priorities as lying. he has done more to ensure help reaches the Ukrainians than any of Borises posing and prancing.

nanna8

Another view of the dreaded Boris is that he is an absolute hero in the Ukraine apparently. Just listening to a Ukrainian spokesman on our tv . They make Boris cakes in his honour !

My theory of that is that I believe that, unlike all of the other world leaders that have visited Ukraine, Johnson speaks Russian. And he can be very charming when he wants to be. Which has impressed them. I’m probably wrong though. I find it hard to believe that Zelensky has been taken in by him, though; maybe he’s just being pragmatic.

MayBee70

nanna8

Another view of the dreaded Boris is that he is an absolute hero in the Ukraine apparently. Just listening to a Ukrainian spokesman on our tv . They make Boris cakes in his honour !

My theory of that is that I believe that, unlike all of the other world leaders that have visited Ukraine, Johnson speaks Russian. And he can be very charming when he wants to be. Which has impressed them. I’m probably wrong though. I find it hard to believe that Zelensky has been taken in by him, though; maybe he’s just being pragmatic.

I'm not convinced that Boris does speak Russian. I have not seen or heard anything to lead me believe that he can conduct a conversation in that language, which is my definition of being able to speak a language. He can memorize and give a short speech in Russian - and has done the same in Ukranian too- but even I could do that!

You’re right. He doesn’t speak Russian. I’ve just googled it. So that’s that theory scuppered then!

MayBee70

You’re right. He doesn’t speak Russian. I’ve just googled it. So that’s that theory scuppered then!

He seems to be a master of b******t, MayBee.

His French is supposed to be fluent, but the little bit that I've actually heard him speak (as opposed to present as a pre-prepared) has sounded pretty c**p to me, though I would be interested in the opinion of any native French-speaking Gransnetters who've heard him speak.

Mind you, he bumbles, umms and ers his way through English, too, rarely using the best, most appropriate words if he can throw in ten more obscure synonyms instead.
He obviously speaks fluent English, but I would argue that he doesn't speak it fluently!

poor baby boris

Just heard a snippet of an interview with his father ( I don’t remember other PM’s that had their dads speak for them) and the bit I heard said his political ambitions weren’t over. But I heard nothing about his political ambitions being about wanting to make the world a better place. His political ambitions seem to be about living in fancy houses, jetting round the world and wearing silly outfits.

MayBee70

Just heard a snippet of an interview with his father ( I don’t remember other PM’s that had their dads speak for them) and the bit I heard said his political ambitions weren’t over. But I heard nothing about his political ambitions being about wanting to make the world a better place. His political ambitions seem to be about living in fancy houses, jetting round the world and wearing silly outfits.

He’s obviously planning to become president. Everything Grany has been dreaming if for years will come true. He will be the popular choice no doubt,

PS I’m not being facetious, I don’t think his personal ambition has any bounds.

he was lucky to last as long as he did, the man has been sacked 3x now for lying and has no sense of decency, he was with his girlfriend in his house with his wife whilst she was having cancer treatment. A kick in the goolies is too good for this guy. We need a caring, compassionate gov't who will properly fund the NHS and set up a social care scheme, Labour will do a good job, they set the NHS up in the 1st place

Casdon

MayBee70

Just heard a snippet of an interview with his father ( I don’t remember other PM’s that had their dads speak for them) and the bit I heard said his political ambitions weren’t over. But I heard nothing about his political ambitions being about wanting to make the world a better place. His political ambitions seem to be about living in fancy houses, jetting round the world and wearing silly outfits.

He’s obviously planning to become president. Everything Grany has been dreaming if for years will come true. He will be the popular choice no doubt,

He wouldn't like being President because a president would have no power. But our current HoS spent a lot of time visiting schools and factories, being waved at and travelling around the world schmoozing other heads of state. So maybe a good job for Johnson after all - no real point to them and people like them irrespective of what they're really like.

Well Said volver so true our HoS is powerless Casdon let Johnson prorogue parliament lots more people could then see pointless HoS

You misunderstand me both. He has in mind a presidency where he has absolute power, not a role similar to the Queen. All it needs is Truss as PM with him pulling the strings (Minister for State?), changes to the law to create a presidential role, sideline the crown and Bob’s your uncle. In his head, I bet that’s how simple it is.

But people keep telling us what an upheaval it would be to replace the monarchy. But you're saying it could be done by stealth by a couple of dimwits? Can't be that robust a system then.

Casdon, popular support comes into it somewhere.

I think now he has hit the jackpot and been booted out as PM's tend to be, his main interest now will be to use the clout having been PM gives him to earn as much money as he can.

BJ is essentially a lazy man, this sis why he lies so much becuase he cannot be bothered to put any effort into doing anything, whether London mayor or PM, he just wants the glory and none of the work.

I susupect he wants to emulate Tony Blair in retirement and make lots of money and seemingly do nothing, although I think that is unfait to Tony Blair, who I think works for his cash.

Whether as an ex PM, he will make that much, other than from writing i am not sure. David Cameron has had a thin time of it since retiring, whch was why he got involved with that dodgy Australian financier, Greensill. There were no other offers.

To be honest who cares what happens to Johnson after he ceases to be PM. he will be yesterday's man and of no account.

volver

But people keep telling us what an upheaval it would be to replace the monarchy. But you're saying it could be done by stealth by a couple of dimwits? Can't be that robust a system then.

Are we confident that the Queen would give her assent to an Act that abolished her? Which would be required in Casdon's scenario. Would the tory majority even vote for a bill which elevated the greased piglet (similarities with Animal Farm seem more appropriate now ?) to such a position? ?

There is a weak spot in having an elected Head of State with any power at all. Being attractive to the electorate is no guarantee of being impartial or even honest. Someone with charisma but no scruples could charm his way into getting elected and then use their position and influence to get more and more powers.

The power to veto a bad law? Who defines a bad law? The HoS?
The power to refuse to sign an international treaty with certain countries or on certain subjects ? Who defines which countries are not suitable? The HoS?
The power to fire a bad PM? Who defines a bad PM? The HoS?
The power to disolve Paliament against its wishes, before its set time is up? Who defines a bad Parliament? The HoS?

Who is making the big decisions, the HoS as one person with one person's opinion (however many learned advisors they have), or an elected Parliament? who have access to the same number of learned advisors?

What we have in our "old-fashioned, anachronistic" monarchy is a position as Head of State which has been moulded and whittled down for over a thousand years from all-powerful dictator who ruled by virtue of military conquest and whose word was law. This was done through repeated interventions to reduce that power and share it.

First religious leaders pushed God's approval. The king granted them land and rights, and also to warriors in exchange for military support. Then those same barons, once they had made enough money out of their lands to become money-lenders to the King, wanted more input in exchange for funding his wars and the costs of policing his kingdom, and for interceding with God on his behalf.

The talking-shop where they advised him on policy became Parliament. Gradually more sections of the population fought their way into being represented at that talking-shop - the common people as well as the lords, and eventually women as well as men. The leaders in the talking-shops became leaders in the country.

Each addition of more voices to the decisions diluted the power of a single individual until what we have now is a Head of State who, in practical terms has no formal personal power . Grany and some others think that is a bad thing, and want the HoS to have the supreme power of over-riding Parliament (which is the embodiment of the whole population) by completely sacking the PM and Cabinet and hence contradicting the lot of them.

That is a LOT of power. It would be better to strengthen the power of the whole Commons and Lords to be able to get rid of a rogue PM and cabinet from within and to reduce the power of the Whips to force individual MPS to vote as instructed instead of using their own brains and the knowledge of what their constituants had voted them in for.

We say that Parliament is sovereign, but there have been efforts made by an individual to reverse that sovereigny and make the post of Prime Minister approach that of Monarch-as-dictator. President-as-dictator could be similarly subverted if they could over-ride Parliament by their sole action.

nanna8

Another view of the dreaded Boris is that he is an absolute hero in the Ukraine apparently. Just listening to a Ukrainian spokesman on our tv . They make Boris cakes in his honour !

This is the spookily accurate cream cake

Someone further up I think it was jaberwik said Johnson has done some wonderful things !! I cannot think of one I wonder what they are?
The most wonderful thing he has done is being removed and if the answer is Brexit then I believe that is the worst thing that has happened to U.K. in a million years and 48% agreed with me and many more have joined that agreement as the lies and more have come to light and the other thing quoted by lovers of J is CoviD forgetting the millions wasted on PPE the abysmal track and trace not to mention the more recent partygate etc
The man is a lying, conniving, bully who needed removing a long time ago

Anybody looked at what has been happening in Sri Lanka recently? One family holds the positions of both Prime Minister and H ofS.

Together the two Rajapaksa brothers, one HofS, the other PM, plus other members of their family have brought this once prosperous country to its knees: no overseas exchange, no fuel imports because they cannot be paid for.

With a monarchy, no family can dominate both offices because the RF doesn't get involved in politics or vote.

I'm not going to get into another discussion about republicanism because this is meant to be about Johnson. We'll never have a republic in this country as long as people are content to make up scare stories about what a president's power will be and are happy to defer to the lady in the jewelled hat which has its own limo.

MOnica
I have. It doesn’t look as if the Chinese are going to get their money back any time soon.

Very well said Elegran!

That is a LOT of power. It would be better to strengthen the power of the whole Commons and Lords to be able to get rid of a rogue PM and cabinet from within and to reduce the power of the Whips to force individual MPS to vote as instructed instead of using their own brains and the knowledge of what their constituants had voted them in for.

We say that Parliament is sovereign, but there have been efforts made by an individual to reverse that sovereigny and make the post of Prime Minister approach that of Monarch-as-dictator. President-as-dictator could be similarly subverted if they could over-ride Parliament by their sole action.

Good post, Elegran ?

I think that a good move towards strengthening the power of the Commons would be PR, which would break the stranglehold of the party system and make the 'elected dictatorship' of a large majority much more difficult to achieve. It would much better reflect the diverse wishes of the electorate and encourage the demise of the adversarial mode of politics. It might even cause the voting public to put a bit more thought into their choices.

Sod the 'strong government' objections to PR. I think our current experience is an awful warning to us...

As we talking about queen

Officials warned of ‘serious wildlife incidents’ at Queen’s Sandringham estate
Exclusive: Dozens of laws protect Queen’s private estates from investigators – but documents reveal allegations of wildlife crime

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/15/sandringham-estate-police-barred-investigating-wildlife-crime?CMP=share_btn_tw

Revealed: Queen’s sweeping immunity from more than 160 laws
Monarch enjoys extraordinary exemptions under law – which extend to her private estates and even a royal fishing business

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/14/queen-immunity-british-laws-private-property?CMP=share_btn_tw

And there is to be a film about Andrew and the interview