Transphobic Bullying

FarNorth

My point being, I don't believe all these 'trans' pupils have gender dysphoria.

No, absolutely not. So I wonder why that is that the thing that keeps coming up on here? Possibly because it is the only cause of transitioning that doesn't involve persuasion of one form or another?

Surely a robust anti bullying policy is enough to deal with any sort of hateful speech/actions or whatever?
No one particular group needs to get special consideration.

MissAdventure

Surely a robust anti bullying policy is enough to deal with any sort of hateful speech/actions or whatever?
No one particular group needs to get special consideration.

It's taken 328 posts to get to the nub of the matter !

Doodledog I expect gender dysphoria has been talked about in trans awareness training, causing the trainees to believe that every child who is claimed to be trans must have that condition.

FarNorth

Doodledog I expect gender dysphoria has been talked about in trans awareness training, causing the trainees to believe that every child who is claimed to be trans must have that condition.

That could well be the case. There does seem to be far more concentration on dysphoria than the numbers would seem to require.

Any anti bullying policy would address's the different types of bullying

If they didn't, how would adults know how to spot it and how would children know what constitutes bullying?

If certain slurs are in prolific public use, how, how is a child to know they are slurs?

And if a child is repeating slurs, who is responsible for that?

So yes it does matter

I wonder if my SEN child came home in a time where SEN slurs were prolific, and I started this thread... if the response would be the same....

Or if adults would be stamping out that sort of slur, as many of us did back then when we saw it online

A clear example of a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

If a child is,being negatively impacted by slurs, then surely that is enough to fetch in anti bullying protocol, whatever the "reasons". (Because bullies need only the flimsiest excuse)

I don't think it's always bullying Missadventure sometimes it is ignorance.

Lots of words get used by lots of children and I wouldn't want to categorise them all as bullies.

I gave an example when I shared the huge amount of disdain expressed by children towards Boris Johnson.

I also wouldnt give up on any child if I could help it. Most bullies do not see themselves that way and can learn better.

I would try and educate them on British Values despite many grown adults not knowing what they are, let alone what they mean

Doodledog

This tread moves so quickly!

I agree that TQ needs to come out of LGBTQ, Lathyrus. Apart from the fact that a lot of gay people (particularly lesbians) are very resentful of the bullying they get from TRAs, it doesn't help the confusion between issues of sexuality and those of transpeople, which are still widespread.

I also agree about single sex spaces, FN. I don't know what the answer is regarding transwomen who are still intact males but I do agree that women need to have the safety of reliable single sex spaces.

It's nothing to do with issues of sexuality and/or transpeople. The reason doesn't matter. It's a matter of equality and the reasons used to discriminate against groups of people. The trans and queer letters were introduced to help those who felt marginalised. And actually things have already moved on. The commonly used expression is now LGBTQ+ because of non-binary people.

The five British Values are:
Democracy.
The rule of law.
Individual liberty.
Mutual respect.
Tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs.

I thought schools would have a set of values to adhere to, as set out by Ofsted and their staff will be aware of that.

If children aren't aware what constitutes bullying, and TBH I'd be surprised if this could be applied to bullies, then this needs addressing. Perhaps the first step needs to be educating children on what type of repetitive behaviour is classified as bullying.

I would be very surprised if those working with children were unable to recognise a case of bullying because they didn't know which 'type' of bullying it was.

The definition of bullying is 'seek to harm, intimidate or coerce'. The definition doesn't change in accordance with the 'type' of bullying; bullying is what it is.

I gave an example when I shared the huge amount of disdain expressed by children towards Boris Johnson.

If children are using the word 'Boris', or any other word, as an insult then it's bullying .

Oh, for goodness sake.

We should be discouraging all slurs, and encouraging all children to be the best versions of themselves that they can.

We should try to distinguish between intentional bullying on a known sensitive point and unintentional failure to be aware that an individual might be sensitive on some subjects.

We should not be focussing on any one demographic at the expense of others

We should not be "giving up" on any child, including one who seems to be bullying. One reason for bullying is that the bully him/herself is getting bullied or put down by someone else.( Not that I have seen anyone advocating giving up - or are you implying that someone HAS proposed to do that?)

VioletSky

Any anti bullying policy would address's the different types of bullying

If they didn't, how would adults know how to spot it and how would children know what constitutes bullying?

If certain slurs are in prolific public use, how, how is a child to know they are slurs?

And if a child is repeating slurs, who is responsible for that?

So yes it does matter

I wonder if my SEN child came home in a time where SEN slurs were prolific, and I started this thread... if the response would be the same....

Or if adults would be stamping out that sort of slur, as many of us did back then when we saw it online

So what you are now saying, it seems, is that an anti-bullying policy would address bullying, but not the name-calling that goes with it, and that this is not 'trans bullying' as the thread title suggests, but name calling?

If that is the case, I don't think you can stop it unless and until the words lose their power. Obsessions with 'misgendering' and insistence on the declaration of gender pronouns just annoy people and give the words surrounding it negative connotations.

Anti-bullying policies can stamp out visible bullying, but I doubt that there has ever been a time when children haven't called one another names. I'm not saying that that's ok, but it's like whack-a-mole. If you stamp out one lot of names another will crop up.

How does bringing up one facet of bullying mean it is at the expense of others or favouring a group?

Can't we handle some deferential discussion?

I mean, I have to do it all the time, different learners at different levels, different needs, different backgrounds

It's never been a problem to discuss one facet of that and thank goodness because everything and everyone is not the same

Glorianny

Doodledog

This tread moves so quickly!

I agree that TQ needs to come out of LGBTQ, Lathyrus. Apart from the fact that a lot of gay people (particularly lesbians) are very resentful of the bullying they get from TRAs, it doesn't help the confusion between issues of sexuality and those of transpeople, which are still widespread.

I also agree about single sex spaces, FN. I don't know what the answer is regarding transwomen who are still intact males but I do agree that women need to have the safety of reliable single sex spaces.

It's nothing to do with issues of sexuality and/or transpeople. The reason doesn't matter. It's a matter of equality and the reasons used to discriminate against groups of people. The trans and queer letters were introduced to help those who felt marginalised. And actually things have already moved on. The commonly used expression is now LGBTQ+ because of non-binary people.

Sorry, but I'm confused. What is nothing to do with issues of sexuality and transpeople? And the reason for what doesn't matter?

The TQ was added when Stonewall needed another focus for its campaigning. Of course trans people existed way back when, but it is relatively recently that they have moved to the forefront of campaigning for the rights of non-straight people. The difference between now and the past is that discrimination is now illegal, and transpeople have the same rights as everyone else.

Bullying as a whole is a hateful thing.
It needs to be stamped out (pardon the pun) and the people who deliberately do it, taken to task, continually, if necessary.

If I was afraid to go to to school because someone was making my life an absolute misery, I would just want it stopped.

VioletSky

How does bringing up one facet of bullying mean it is at the expense of others or favouring a group?

Can't we handle some deferential discussion?

What is differential discussion?

Bringing up one facet of bullying is not at anyone's expense. But the thread title is Transphobic Bullying. You are saying that it is nothing of the kind, but the use of what you call 'trans slurs' against people who do not 'identify' as trans. I am suggesting that that if the anti-bullying policy is, as you say, addressing the different types of bullying, we are left with the fact that children, trans or not, are calling one another names, and that at the moment, those names are associated with trans issues.

In a while the focus will have shifted to whatever is annoying people then. You've used the example of calling someone a 'Boris'. I assume that that is hypothetical, but whether or not, it will do as an example. Is anyone called 'Specky Four Eyes' now? Names as insults change all the time, and name-calling is as old as time. As I said, I am not saying they don't hurt, but trying to stamp it out will only give the words more power.

I don't see why a particular section of people need special protection.

No bullying - no name calling, no "banter", no pushing, shoving, tripping, or defacing of someone's possessions.
No threats, no derogatory words, no laughing or joking at the expense of that person.

Surely that covers everyone?

I would say you've got everyone covered MissA.

Lol I spelled it wrong and you spelt it right doodledog

MissAdventure

I don't see why a particular section of people need special protection.

No bullying - no name calling, no "banter", no pushing, shoving, tripping, or defacing of someone's possessions.
No threats, no derogatory words, no laughing or joking at the expense of that person.

Surely that covers everyone?

There are lots of different types of bullying that impact children differently MissA

And we need to recognise and respond accordingly

I guess it's a bit like saying "All lives matter" when we don't understand that different demographics are impacted differently across the board

I still don't know what it means, though. Discussing different things, discussing differences between things? Discussing the differentials between different things?

I even googled it to see if it was a jargon term I hadn't heard, but it came up with nothing. It probably doesn't matter.