Transphobic Bullying

Yes but I don't believe it is all due to bullies, some is ignorance and some is influence.

And I don't like the idea that bullying will exist regardless, I think we can teach children better.

Being careful how we discuss issues so that children don't "other" each other and see others as less than themselves or less worthy of respect would help in my opinion.

In order to tackle bullying we need to look at all root causes

I àpprecate that others just aren't understanding what I am trying to convey or why I believe it matters as a subject and that's OK but really doesn't mean they are correct

Callistemon21
Yes
Bullying of whatever kind is wrong and should be addressed in school. Bullies themselves often have problems and it makes them feel better to take it out on a victim.
Denying one sort of bullying is happening is even worse. It leaves the victim nowhere to turn for help.

I mentioned on this thread that every account of a 'trans child' I've seen has been based on stereotypes.
Here's another one, from today's Metro.

Noella had a rough start to life as she was extremely unhappy being perceived as a boy,’ said Dee.
‘Even when she was two, she said she’s not a little boy.
She would refuse to wear boy clothes and have tantrums because she was so young, she knew what she wanted but didn’t have the words to say it.

‘I should have known earlier as she hated anything masculine so I brought her to a gender clinic.'

metro.co.uk/2022/08/16/transgender-model-10-becomes-youngest-to-walk-the-nyfw-runway-17190862/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

The issue we have to consider in both the subject of the thread and your comment FarNorth is that gender norms currently exist.... everywhere

And while they do, this sort of thing will keep happening

Which makes sexism the root cause of the issue

VioletSky

Likely because the bullying happening now as acknowledged in government policy is transphobic and influenced by how issues are being discussed in the wider media Smileless

I agree that it is likely that government policy (as advised by Stonewall) and the influence of the media (ditto - at least before the BBC and other media have started to distance themselves) is responsible for a lot of it.

What used to be bullying (which has always happened, and sadly probably always will) is now divided into categories, and if 'transphobic bullying' does not even have to happen to trans children, then surely we are looking at name-calling, pure and simple.

Nasty, yes. Damaging, certainly. But name-calling, in the way that 'Specky Four Eyes' used to be shouted at children wearing glasses. Nobody went on courses trying to find the causes of 'phobia' of astigmatism, and wondered whether parents were influencing their children by discussing opticians in their hearing. They dealt with the instances, tried to teach children to be nice to one another, and got on with teaching them.

doodledog did you read through the policy?

How would we know what was influenced by Stonewall?

Is everything Stonewall have done wrong?

No one calls children without glasses "specks four eyes"

VioletSky

No one calls children without glasses "specks four eyes"

Ok then. 'Your mum. . .' comments, or jibes about being fat to children who are not.

Bullying doesn't always make objective sense.

Well, in that case I'd say that was fatphobic and another example of the issue I am trying to highlight.

I was a child in the 50's and I cannot remember bullying as bad as it is these days.

I was "picked on " for being short. Nothing really bad, more like being teased. No I didn't like it but It didn't make me want to die or not go to school......Perhaps because the general atmosphere at that time was that life is tough and it is best to learn to stick up for one self.

I lived in a very poor area, that had violent adults but not children.

I also hated "girls stuff" like skirts, dresses. especially pretty one. I wanted to wear same clothes as my younger brother. And I played football in a girls team.

I noticed the sexism mainly in projected asperations. You will get married and have kids. I took a firm stand with "No I won't.

It seems the sexist profiling is much worse now.

VioletSky

Well, in that case I'd say that was fatphobic and another example of the issue I am trying to highlight.

Ok, so we are talking about why some words are used as insults?
There are some interesting thoughts on that here (trigger warning for offensive race-related language).

and a longer, more academic article here.

pinkquartz

I was a child in the 50's and I cannot remember bullying as bad as it is these days.

I was "picked on " for being short. Nothing really bad, more like being teased. No I didn't like it but It didn't make me want to die or not go to school......Perhaps because the general atmosphere at that time was that life is tough and it is best to learn to stick up for one self.

I lived in a very poor area, that had violent adults but not children.

I also hated "girls stuff" like skirts, dresses. especially pretty one. I wanted to wear same clothes as my younger brother. And I played football in a girls team.

I noticed the sexism mainly in projected asperations. You will get married and have kids. I took a firm stand with "No I won't.

It seems the sexist profiling is much worse now.

Yes I agree, that's why I'm looking to adults to take responsibility for what happens in the media and social spheres like twitter.

I'll have a look later doodledog not fun hospital appointment, thunderstormy air, headache and need to sleep it off

Doodledog interesting posting. Some words are used to deliberately insult another whilst others get into common parlance without the user realising the true significance. Children used to refer to something as gay without knowing why. When I first met Dh if something didn’t work he used the word ‘spas’ to describe it. I was horrified as I felt it insulted and mocked cerebral palsey and I forbade him to use it.

VioletSky

The issue we have to consider in both the subject of the thread and your comment FarNorth is that gender norms currently exist.... everywhere

And while they do, this sort of thing will keep happening

Which makes sexism the root cause of the issue

Exactly.
And not widespread cases of gender dysphoria, as some seem to think.

It's quite depressing that people like the parents in the article think they are so progressive when they are really so limited in their thinking.

VioletSky

No one calls children without glasses "specks four eyes"

I can easily imagine that being worked up into bullying of a child (without glasses) who happened to bump into someone or trip over.
Bullies will grab onto anything.

I understand that people really aren't grasping what I am saying about adult responsibility towards children here and bullying, trend or not.

But it is so incredibly important to me.

I will keep trying to educate children on British values of individual liberty, tolerance and respect

I will find other adults I can reach if possible, we need to do better.

I sincerely believe growing up with prejudice of any kind due to learned behaviour only leads to future unhappiness and unhappy people are more likely to remain bullies in adulthood and perpetuate cycles

So damaging

People are grasping it, they just arent necessarily agreeing with it.

Are you talking about children with parents of a similar age to you?

Ah well MissA I haven't really seen any logical arguments against what I have said

Just "bullies will be bullies"

Which just seems like such a cop out to me.

An easy absolution of responsibility

I have spoken about five times on my view VS, it has been completely ignored. There were also some very good points made about gender and how entrenched it has become ( pink lego) and how regressive this is.

Sorry Galaxy you are very polite in sharing your views (even if we don't agree on some things) and I've meant to come back to you and have been distracted.

I need to make time to read the thread again now really as I think I may have inadvertently missed a lot because I'm really busy at the mo and checking in rather than sitting to talk

I am not worried about myself , it's just people are exploring issues around gender and sexism. So I think it was smileless who talked about the fact that playing with Lego was just a few years ago simply playing with Lego. It wasnt a boy or girl thing based on colour or theme. Those gender norms have been re inforced rather than challenged.

My logical argument is that anti bullying protocols and procedures are already in place, and if they are implemented properly, it would cover any and every reason why or how a bully would behave, and what will not be tolerated.

I thought I acknowledged that bullying with roots in sexism was getting worse and that we are dealing with a society where gender norms are everywhere and the role the media plays in that but maybe I didn't?

I was talking to Mr. S. about this earlier today. He's 69 and reminded me that when he was 15 he learned typing at school, the only boy in the class.

Now that could hardly be considered conforming to gender norms could it!!! Yet he was never bullied for non conformity which for me, reinforces my belief that the term 'transphobic bullying' should only be applied when the victim is trans and that is the reason they are being bullied.